ADJUSTED
ADJUSTED
The Power of Mentorship with Andrew Shockney
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In this rebroadcast episode, ADJUSTED welcomes Andrew Shockney Professor at Ohio State University and founder of What Box Consulting. Andrew discusses the power mentorship can bring to both individuals and businesses.
Season 8 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp. This episode is hosted by Greg Hamlin and guest co-host Natalie Dangles.
Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkindcomp.com
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com
Hello everybody and welcome to Adjusted. I'm your host, Greg Hamlin, inviting you to join me for this special rebroadcast of the Power of Mentorship with Andy Shockney. I'm actually very excited about this episode. Andy is a good friend of mine. We met in one of the nerdiest ways playing Dungeons and Dragons at a gaming convention. So now I'm outed for my nerdiness, but that's okay.
Speaker 1Andy has been a friend of mine for a long time and we actually worked together and collaborated a little bit when I was in between jobs, and I was really impressed with Andy and his ability to reach out and care, and so I thought sharing this episode of mentorship and what it means in an industry that needs it more than ever was very important to me, and I hope that, if you haven't listened to this episode, that you'll take some time and listen to this one, because the industry definitely needs more teachers and people who are willing to take time out of their day to spend time with others to help them grow in their career. Enjoy. Hello everybody and welcome to Adjusted. I'm your host, Greg Hamlin, coming at you from beautiful sweet home, Alabama, in Berkeley Industrial Comp. And with me is my co-host for the day, Natalie Dangles. Natalie, do you want to introduce yourself for?
Speaker 2everyone, Hello everyone. I'm Natalie Dangles. I'm the Regional Resolution Manager in the Las Vegas office at Berkeley Industrial Comp.
Speaker 1I'm lucky enough that I get to work with her, so I'm glad to have her with me today. And for people who don't know, if you follow our blog, natalie is the one that's doing all the hard work behind the scenes on that, so you'll recognize her from that. We have a special guest with us today, andy Shockney, who's a professor at the Ohio State University and founder of Whatbox Consulting. Andy, if you could say, hello to everybody.
Speaker 3Good afternoon, Greg. Pleasure to be with you today.
Speaker 1Glad to have you, Andy. So Andy and I go back a little ways, but before we get to that, I wanted you to tell us a little bit about your story, Andy. How did you end up in consulting and teaching, and did you know, like is that where you saw yourself when you were in kindergarten?
Speaker 3Well, no, I was either going to be James Bond or Neil Armstrong when I was in kindergarten, but that did not work out. As often happens, that default to other things like business. I had a wonderful opportunity to do an internship my senior year in college, working at Merrill Lynch. Totally got that. Getting to help people to help themselves, create a legacy, provide for their families was just magical. Absolutely love that.
Speaker 3So went on to do 10 years in corporate working in banking. I'm a reform banker, don't hold it against me, please. I learned an enormous amount in that time, did my MBA while I was working there and then 10 years working for entrepreneurs, which is really my strong desire to want to be an entrepreneur. I actually was running around at the banks, leading mutinies and transforming organizations and kicking down walls and doors and creating centralized operation centers and providing way more effective ways and efficient ways to provide services, and so it's better to do that externally, not in big corporate environments. So 10 years working for entrepreneurs and even that whole time I was acting like a consultant. I always had wanted to be.
Speaker 3I'd worked with McKinsey and Nolan Consulting Group when I was at the banks, loved that work, wanted to do that for a living but, didn't want to have to travel around the country and so thought someday I'll be able to do this not just with entrepreneurs, but other publicly traded and large companies here in central Ohio, where I grew up, and nearby here in Ohio.
Speaker 3And so, in 2016, after locking in a strategic plan, I was leading a strategy and customer experience at a company called 31 Gifts, headquartered here in Columbus, ohio. I went immediately into my boss, the CFO's office, and said this is what I want to do. This is absolutely it. I hope you'll continue to be a client which 31 was, and I want to go find other clients and continue to do this, and I think of the teaching that I get to do. I teach the two marketing capstone classes at the Ohio State University. I think of that as really my way to give back. I love the opportunity that keeps me young, to work with students that are so brilliant, they're full of so many great ideas and they are a captive audience. Greg, they'll listen to my crazy story.
Speaker 1That's fantastic. Well, I love your story and how you got to where you are now. Before we get too far into this, I want to kind of connect how Andy and I met. So you know those who don't know I'm going to reveal a secret about myself. I'm a huge nerd, so I love board games and Dungeons and Dragons. So I'm out now Everyone can hear my secret and so, anyway, I go to a couple of these big game conventions and I actually met.
Speaker 1Andy playing Dungeons and Dragons, believe it or not, not through business connections, even though we're both in the financial sector. So, interestingly enough, that friendship that we met maybe once a year to play some games took me to 2018, which I think a lot of people can relate to this and have been through this experience where your career is going amazing, you're doing everything right and you come into the office one day and find out wait a minute, I don't have a job, and so I went through that in July of 2018. And going through that experience, the first thing I did was start to reach out to people everybody and it's interesting. Having gone through that, I contacted everybody I knew on facebook, anybody I knew from my professional career, and each morning I'd spend three or four hours networking just reaching out to people to see who might know an opportunity that I might not know of.
Speaker 1So eventually, as I got through the normal circle of people I reached out to, I thought, well, I'm going to reach out to the next level and reached out to Andy and he responded of all the different people that I reached out to, which is interesting because I even had, like best friends from high school that, like two years later I went to go message and I saw my last note to them was like asking them, you know, if they knew any opportunities. I was like wow, they like totally never even answered, but Andy did. So I wanted to start by asking you, andy, what were you thinking when you saw that we're going to talk about mentors today?
Speaker 3I appreciate that and I guess it should be known. I'm out now too. I'm an enormous nerd, this is also true. I'll completely own it and I love it. So, yeah, always have been, and you and you guys who can see me online right now, it's just, which books am I reading? Right, these are my business management and marketing books, or entrepreneurship books. I have a whole nother set of books down in the dungeons downstairs. So, yeah, no, it's all good. I went through the same thing too, greg, in 2002, when I exited the bank right and so had the wonderful blessing of going through a great process, that's a step-by-step approach to understanding how important it is to build a network, and in that process, learned the incredibly eye-opening exercise and this was not what I was taught in college which was to find all the companies in the world that you might work for and mail them all your resume with a cover letter and then see who responds. I thought that's how people got jobs. It is not.
Speaker 3Over 70% of jobs come from somebody you know or somebody they know. It is about identifying, building and nurturing a powerful and important network and growing that network in meaningful ways, by doing people favors, helping people throughout life, as they ask, because someday you'll reach back out to them and say, hey, I might need a hand with something and you want to get a great response. That's absolutely it, and it was like a V8 moment.
Speaker 3So, yeah, I have worked very hard on building a network In the 31 business. We were a networking business, a direct sales business, and they had a famous phrase back then, which is that your network is your net worth. Right, that it was literally who you know and being very intentional and purposeful about nurturing and just giving first, doing favors, always reaching out when people ask and isn't that what you'd want?
Speaker 1right, I mean it's not a golden rule Absolutely, and you know, I think that was what really struck me in that moment is. So you reached out right away and when I sent that out, I think you know we talked on the phone if I'm remembering right, maybe a week or so or a few days after I messaged you and you said look, I will help as much as you need. If you wanna talk every week, we can talk every week. If you want help reviewing your resume, I'm happy to do that. If you want me to point you into some directions of some books or some different ideas to push you, I'm happy to do that too.
Speaker 1And it was just the openness and willingness to help in any way that you could that really stood out to me and it's something that I've been thinking about and why I wanted to do this episode today on mentor chips is, I think it's sort of something that gets forgotten about and it's really really important, and I think there's probably the two sides. There's finding a mentor, so we can talk about that today, and then maybe also the other happens how do you be a mentor, or when should you? So you know you talk a little bit about this, but I'll let Natalie jump in with a few questions too. So go ahead, natalie.
Speaker 2Yes, and I think you know that's one of the important things that I've always tried to tell people is never pass up an opportunity to meet someone, because you never know they could be working with you, you could eventually be working for them. It's always good to just never pass up that opportunity. You know, when you have an opportunity to meet someone, meet them. I think, like you got to meet through Dungeons and Dragons. I mean, it's just you know, the oddest things happen that bring you know people in your life. I don't believe there's accidents that way. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3Oh, 100%.
Speaker 3Yeah, no, it reminds me too of that immature I've got a 16-year-old and a 20-year-old at home, right and so that immature going up through school and that cliquishness if I don't want to have lunch with them and I don't want to go you know they invited me, but I think so-and-so is going to be there and all these things that we all went through that we learned probably the wrong ways and because we wanted to fit in or we wanted to be cool, and so much more, especially once you get out into the work life and you kind of realize how little any of that social status matters and how much we're all in this together.
Speaker 3We can only help each other, right? There's 7 billion people in the world. I'm only going to know a few thousand people, if I'm lucky. Every single one of them can play a role and it doesn't matter what they do, where they're from, how they do it. It's kind of almost my duty to find that connection with the people that are in my life and find an opportunity in a way that I can help them and, if I have the blessing someday, to get to work with them in a way or in a capacity that they can also give back all the better.
Speaker 2Would you think that the social media networking is more effective or in-person networking? Just from your experience?
Importance of Intentional Mentorship in Business
Speaker 3Yeah, no, that's really great. You're dating me a little bit with that question. I was before the time that there were social networks and, yeah, that was a very nice addition, I'll say, to the network. I love, for example, today that I can keep in touch with the people at companies I used to work with much easier and see how things are going and stay in touch a little bit, a little more accessible both to them and and vice versa To me. I love that my friends from college and high school who I stay in touch with, right, that I can see their kids graduations pictures or their kids getting married pictures, now stuff like that, that's really kind of magical that I definitely would not have had access to otherwise.
Speaker 3But that is not networking.
Speaker 3That's keeping up with, right, like that's the equivalent of our old, like Christmas letters, if you ever did those Again, right, yeah, it's like here's everything that happened in a year and I'm not going to make it more than three paragraphs, so you know, don't, don't it's, don't be too offended here, right, and it was delightful to get those and read through them and this is kind of like the replacement to that.
Speaker 3And and there are some channels and groups that you can join, where you can go a little deeper and do it with intention. But they need to be very well curated. Those need to be a little more guarded, a little more intentional about who we invite and what our topics are and how do we make good use of that time. Just like anything that we do with our time, I think it's all about in-person Always has been and still is. Today. I just got back from lunch with one of my friends of 35 years and we're still very intentional and purposeful about being in touch not all the time, once, maybe twice a year to just keep up with each other.
Speaker 1I love the point you make about it being intentional, because I think that's, I think, the part that sometimes we miss. I think about my career with the company I started with after college and they spent a lot of money in training us and that they flew us all to corporate. We spent two weeks in a hotel, meeting every day to train I think there were probably 30 people in my class that were being trained at the same time and then we went back to our operating units in the different locations throughout the country that we were. I think there was only one in my office that was there with me and everybody else was from anywhere from Seattle to New York to Texas, and it was interesting.
Speaker 1Within about two years, I think, there were four of us left and I think by the time I took a promotion to Cincinnati, there was only me left and I'm no longer with that company. And I look back at that and I think, wow, they spent so many resources to recruit me, find me, train me. And I think the part that maybe I missed out on or that didn't happen is I didn't really feel like I had somebody there who was mentoring me and I didn't actually see where I was going to be in five years, in 10 years, in 15 years, and I don't know if that's what's happened to the others because I haven't kept up with them. But I'm just curious on that, andy, why don't we see more effective company mentoring programs?
Speaker 3Well, it's an interesting thing if you I mean okay, let me put my academic hat on for a second, for a minute who studies these things? And in the business and management space, right, if you think back to how businesses and we're talking business strategy here really did things as an industrial age, right. So from the 20s to the 60s, right, there was an enormous amount of investment in the training of people, right, and that was a given Right. Well, you hired people, you didn't hire skill sets and you trained all the skill sets you needed, because that's what drove your economic engine. Well, thank you, mr Drucker, for introducing us all to the information age, right. Well, thank you, mr Drucker, for introducing us all to the information age. Right. And along came these white-collar workers.
Speaker 3And so now the majority of our people in jobs today in US economies and first world economies, are information age folks, and businesses have cut way back on that training, that development and its intention. And, quite frankly, we've also seen this undercurrent, especially in the 80s, with this very high emphasis on kind of, how are we doing this quarter? How do we make sure that every dollar we're investing is directly returning a value? Right, that mentorship, that personal development, is a long-term play right. It's a long-term investment to see that payback play right. It's a long-term investment to see that payback. And so I think businesses, the meta environment of businesses, is not to build and support that, and I don't know that that's entirely wrong strategically, it just kind of is what it is. It's where we are right now, but I think what's important is that we acknowledge that and take that ownership and find those needs right. That's one of the great things about an entrepreneurial capitalistic economy like we're in is those needs will be met and fulfilled.
Speaker 3I'll say for myself, right part of my move into entrepreneurship could not have even remotely been possible without incredible mentors and without incredible people along the journey to help support me in that direction. And I'll say I even am a part of and support not only through my teaching at Ohio State and want to be a mentor to those students. I also am a part of the Rotary Columbus Rotary here in Columbus, ohio and to me that is an organization that fills that need and that gap. That is absolutely people with this experience reaching out through endowments and scholarship programs and mentoring programs that we lead. I'm one of the co-leads of the Veterans Mentoring Program where we partner with Ohio State University and we mentor veterans who are attending Ohio State. So there are opportunities out there to kind of help fill those needs. But I think there's an ownership right now on all of us to help identify and close those gaps. There are certainly a full bell curve, so some big companies that are seeing that and jumping in to fill that role, based on that absence, to differentiate themselves.
Speaker 2Now, if you don't mind me asking, how did you find your mentors? When you were cause, you said you had great mentors.
Speaker 3Yeah, I'm I. You know proximity is king, right, that in person, of course. Right, I can go through a litany of going back to my parents and to my close family friends. You know folks that were with us at the wedding and along those lines Right, and just incredibly close family friends. You know folks that were with us at the wedding and along those lines, right, and just incredibly blessed in those capacities.
Speaker 3And then, all the way up to the people who were my first boss, my first supervisor at the bank and the first manager at the bank and the first director at the bank who saw the potential in me and challenged me to go get my MBA and gave me incredible opportunity after incredible opportunity that I tried to just crush because you know they were giving me these opportunities that nobody else I mean. I looked to my left and my right and nobody else was getting those. But when she gives me, you know however many hundred thousand dollars to invest in trying to build something and we deliver more than 10X back, I'm going to get the next opportunity. So you know, it was things like that in the journey.
Importance of Mentorship Communication
Speaker 3And then what I'll say is 2002 happened, right, and I went through this sudden aha. And then it became very intentional about what is that old adage? They say that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. I have a long list of people that I connect with and write the LinkedIn list that's out there. But I'm intentional about who I spend time with and I'm intentional about setting up and reinvesting annually, quarterly, monthly, even weekly, to make sure that I'm investing in those mentor relationships and making space for the people who I mentor as well.
Speaker 1I love what you said about. You know you're the combination of the five people you spend the most time with. I know when I moved to Ohio this is kind of a funny story, but everybody on pounds, but part of it was I just spent time around these people and I think we don't always realize we, sort of by osmosis, pick up the good habits and the bad habits. So I love how you said being intentional and being careful who we spend our time with, because we do end up kind of taking on some of those characteristics over time. We do end up kind of taking on some of those characteristics over time. I wanted to ask you the question and I think you talked about this a little but what makes someone a good mentee? I don't even know if that's a word. It sounds like something you have for a breath freshener. But what makes somebody a good learner or someone who can actually take in some of that information and develop?
Speaker 3Yeah, no, that that's great question, great. So two things that I'm always. I'm always energized by one is an unbridled passion or enthusiasm. Right, and all the things that go with that. That engagement, that willingness to go the extra mile, that willingness to reschedule to make it work, that willingness to put in the time to drive some impact from it. Right, like that unbridled enthusiasm is just it's rare and it's just incredibly valuable. And it always sets me up to know that this is probably going to be really exciting. We'll have stories to tell. It may not go the way we thought, but we're going to have some stories to tell after this is done.
Speaker 3And the other one is really just tremendous potential. I was just talking to another client earlier today about how this new 24-year-old just joining the company, also a gamer and all the potential in the world and that's really so powerful that if they've got the right attitude, the right intellect, the right capability to learn so much in the information age we all have access to information, to resources, to abilities. The question is, what can you do with it? Right? And are you willing to constantly put in the time and energy it's going to take to get better at this thing? That is, adding value, and then understand why you're doing it and how it fits in the organization or the relationship or whatever you're trying to help improve.
Speaker 2That's great and it is true. I mean, when you're around positive people, there's just something about that. If you've ever just been around a positive person and it just makes you smile the rest of the day and it day. But same with negative. If you've been around someone negative, you feel drained. So I could see where that would be very important. That attitude is everything it really is. I mean, I think you can teach skill sets, but when you have someone who's just so positive, I think you can do a lot with that that's what it can do.
Speaker 3That's so great as a mentee, that's exactly right and it makes me feel excited about what's going to happen. I'll say too though let me flip that for a second to the mentor side Often when we engage folks and Greg, our relationship was like this when you engaged with me part of that journey for us as mentors is helping people back to that place. I've gone through this exercise with more than a few people that when we're engaging, it's not the highest point in their career and life and their right. And so it is. It is a tough and that's an important and key thing in the empathy that we can do in mentoring is acknowledging people where they are Right. It's. I'm excited by potential.
Speaker 3Empathy that we can do in mentoring is acknowledging people where they are right. I'm excited by potential. I'm excited by enthusiasm, and that talent, that capability and that attitude is going to take them a long way, but part of our role as a mentor is to help them level that right. It's not as low as the low seems when we're talking to them right when they've got the real need, but it's also not as high as the high seems when you've got your first offer in hand and you think that, oh my gosh, this is it, it's all over. And Greg knows this from our conversation. That's usually where the work really begins, it is, and you know.
Speaker 1Something I really think is important for our listeners to understand is when you are being mentored, being open to feedback and listening to that feedback and being willing to try different things.
Speaker 1So, for example, you know I had spent a lot of time on my resume before I. You know, of course, I'm in a senior vice president role now. So the end of the story is good. All the story continues.
Speaker 1But one of the things that, when I spent all this time on the resume, I'd sent it to Andy and he looked at it and he said, well, just tell me about your biggest accomplishments. And so we started talking about all the things that I'd done. That was exciting at my former employer, some of these new ideas we'd done and big goals we achieved. And he listened and then he said I don't see any of this on here. Why is that not? The first thing I see when I look at your resume is the amazing things you accomplished. I thought, well, I don't know.
Speaker 1And so you know, we ended up going back to the drawing board and kind of rethinking how that looked, and I think it takes some willingness to be able to hear somebody else's constructive feedback. That might not be everything you did is perfect. You know, have you thought about presenting it this way or have you thought about looking at it this way? So I think you know when we're in either role, but especially when we're being mentored. I think being open, being open to feedback is really important. What are your thoughts on that, andy?
Speaker 3Yeah, right, if you're asking me in a resume writing class to grade your resume, it would have been an A Right? I mean, you've checked out the box, you did all the things, it's all in order, right. Of course, if you're asking me like a mentor, how do I get my next job? I hold up a piece of paper and say this is a 30 second introduction to you before I have the interview. That's going to matter. Tell me your story. Yeah, give me the thing that I want to ask you a question about, right, totally different mentoring versus tactical. What you need and that's the that's to me, the magic of a good mentoring relationship is having someone who's been there. They know how to sometimes we call it see around the corners, right, right on the receiving side of doing all that hiring, right, and I'm sure you are too, greg, but we just weren't in that seat at that time.
Speaker 3We don't have that proximity, right, that it's like yeah, this is the thing I literally grab out of a stack of 10 in a row. I'm going back to back to back and I'm trying in a scan to get my what are my two or three questions that I'm going to add as flavor to my standard review that I'm going to do with this great candidate.
Speaker 1Yeah, I just think it's so important. And the other, the other piece of that and that's this is something that we did during that time was check ins, regular check ins, and I've been on the other side of that. We're mentoring somebody. Why do you feel like those are important, far as having touch points when you're working with somebody?
Speaker 3When you look at communication and how good communication works over a long period of time, the thing that a lot of people overlook is the frequency of communication. We're talking about proximity, we're talking about networking and being in person. Frequency of communication actually ranks higher than anything else.
Speaker 3And that is often missed, right? So we, you know, frustrated as it is, oh, we got to do our one-on-ones and our touch bases and I feel like I'm overscheduled. No, that's there for a reason. It's because we've proven that works. That is now you've got to be intentional about using that time effectively.
Effective Mentorship Through Communication
Speaker 1But if you have that plan, that agenda, that frequency of communication is essential to effective communication. I couldn't agree more. I think that's huge, Natalie. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2My thoughts on this is no, it is true, because you're constantly reinforcing what you're going over and I think that when you're constantly speaking with someone, you get very comfortable and you build that trust. I know with my team we have daily check-ins because I want them to get in the habit of reaching out to me instead of you know. It'd be a lot different, probably awkward, if it was once a month. Right, I have no, I completely agree with that.
Speaker 1Natalie, one thing I'd add to what you just said is most of your team actually none of your team members are actually physically in Las Vegas. Yeah, that's another thing is Natalie's not going to run into her team at the water cooler, and so if without some of those intentional checkpoints, you know, it's hard to build relationships, Very true, Intentional, being intentional and having that time, that regular feedback.
Speaker 3I love your comment about the habits. Now it's the routines that become the habits. That is that closest five people average, right. It's the thing sometimes we don't even realize that we're absorbing their language, their attitude, their right. It's how we shape opinions and beliefs together over time. That helps us be able to row together and accomplish more together.
Speaker 2Oh, I really like that.
Speaker 1I agree, and I think the other piece of that so the check-ins are important, but I think the other really important part of that is listening.
Speaker 1And I think the other piece of that so the check-ins are important, but I think the other really important part of that is listening.
Speaker 1And I remember a time in my career this has been probably eight years ago and I've always felt like I'm a pretty good listener and I had a 360 review where your peers review you, your direct reports review you, your boss reviews you and you get all this feedback that's aggregated and scrubbed a little bit, so you don't know exactly where it all came from.
Speaker 1But one of the themes I saw in there was like, well, I don't feel like he listens to me and I thought, wow, how can that be moment for me? Because what I realized is that I was so busy doing so many different things and I was hearing what people were saying, but they didn't feel like I was hearing what they were saying, because I was doing things whether that was rushing from thing to thing to thing or looking at my phone, having my laptop open like I had not yet learned to pause and to shut some of those things down and really listen. And so you know, andy, if you could talk a little bit, like when it comes to being a mentor or being mentored, how do you feel listening fits into that.
Speaker 3Wow, I mean you mentioned earlier Greg, it's certainly mission critical as a mentee, right? I mean that's if this is really going to work, if we're going to add any value. You're going to come to me with a problem or a challenge or an opportunity and I want to try and pull back, ideally, from my experiences and try and help say this is what I've done in a similar situation. Here's people I could put you in contact with who might also have experiences, and it's got to be how do we find ways together to take my story, to relate it to your situation? And it's it's really, I mean, not even right in that interaction. The story is a third of the, the conversation, right, it's a third of. It is just. Here's a story where I've had that, that framing. So here's a third on how do we make that apply to your problem, opportunity, challenge. And then what are we doing? What's your action plan Now? Ultimately, it's your full listening, your full engagement in that and for me, as a good mentor, the empathy comes in that. I'm hearing that last part so that I can help hold you accountable to that that when we check in because we just talked about frequency and how important that check-in is that I know what to ask about.
Speaker 3Did you get that list built? You were going to contact those three people. How'd you do? Oh, it's Greg. You didn't contact three, you contacted 30. Got it Okay?
Speaker 1I see how this is going to go.
Speaker 3Check, check I'm a little intense.
Speaker 2Do you think it's important, too, that when you're mentoring someone to see how your mentee learns, because everyone's learning style is different, so do you think that that is another factor in seeing how they, you know, obtain the information, because everybody, you know, learns in a different way?
Speaker 3I'm a huge fan of learning styles. Way, I'm a huge fan of learning styles, communication styles and strength finders. So every time that I've been a leader with a department, as a department head, I've made that a requirement for all of my direct reports. In one of the departments I did in the customer experience in the operations center, I had everybody in leadership 25 or 30 people all go through StrengthFinders and five love languages and DISC we used for our different communication assessments. They're effective. Right, they're not perfect tools, but they're effective.
Speaker 3I love how, all in all cases, they help you pay attention to and be intentional about the empathy of there's no right or wrong way and just because someone communicates or learns different than me, that doesn't make it mine the right way and there's the wrong way.
Speaker 3And then, secondarily, it builds a set, a common set of language for us to use as a team to say, oh, that's right, this is how you learn. That's different than wait. Let's reset that, because what's more important is not that I said it once, it's that we've all taken the action or the step or the learning that we were looking for at this stage in our journey together. So, yeah, hugely important and a part of that. And when I have a executive mentoring, that I do as part of my consulting business and that's also a standard part. And I go beyond those and also into beliefs and values, because I also want to understand for the people who are executives that I'm mentoring. I want to understand where their beliefs and value systems are coming from so that they can tap into that for their leadership style as well.
Speaker 1That's great, and we use some of those same tools in our company and I think understanding how different people learn and process information and communicate really helps, because sometimes some of the bigger problems are really just lack of understanding of people and not understanding where they've come from and why they're doing what they're doing. And then I mean I use the example all the time my former boss, who's now our chairman we had done the DISC assessment and he is a C. So for people who don't know what that means is, he likes all the facts, he likes all the information, he likes to have time to process that information before he makes a decision. I am an I a strong I-D, which means I get excited about ideas and I want to get results. So those two things are huge. So I could have this great, huge idea and I know that if I showed up in his office so excited about this idea and ready to make decisions and move on, that was not going to work. And I learned what I needed to do is I would spell out all the reasons why this was a good idea and the way we would go about implementing it. Then I would send it to him and say we're not going to meet for three days on this because I want to give you time to read through it all, and if you have questions before we meet, let me know and I can give you more information. And once I learned that he would literally say you know me so well, greg, this is going to make our meeting go so well, and so it's just taking that time to understand how we learn, how we communicate, makes a big difference.
Speaker 1One of the things you talked a little bit about, andy, was goal setting and that you know when we talked, usually there were a few takeaways when we were on the phone about you know, before we talk again, you know if you could talk to three people each day or if you could look at you know there was a book. Look into this book, you know, and let me know what your thoughts are as you're reading it. So we had different things that we would talk about. So there was some direction to the time that we spent together, because obviously your time is valuable and for those who are mentoring, their time is valuable for people who might be listening. So where's the importance of goal setting and problem solving in a mentor-mentee relationship?
Effective Mentorship and Goal Setting
Speaker 3So goal setting is proven to work. If you're old, like me, all the way back to the old Franklin planner and time management, you had to write down every day that you were going to do today and what are your big rocks that need to get done this month or quarter? Right and traction leverages, all this kind of line of thinking. It's there and it's out in the metasphere because it works. It's proven. If the goal gets written down, it's multiples time more likely to occur or to happen. So, understanding that it is that intention we keep talking about understanding what it is. We're really there to try to do what we're trying to get accomplished and then being able, like our Franklin planners taught us back in the 90s to break those goals down into the manageable, bite-sized chunks what do I need to get done this week? And then what day do I think I'm blocking, or time to do it? Because that's really, at the end of the day, what it all boils down to is we all only have 24 hours in the day, so it's how do we use that time to get the biggest, most important things accomplished? And so the goal setting allows us to be intentional. It allows us to work with purpose, right. And, by the way, that doesn't mean we don't still play games. It doesn't mean we don't enjoy each other's company or go to lunch with a friend from 35 years right, that is also part of our purpose and part of our goals. But it is about creating the space and being able to do it in a way that I think is manageable right. Being able to do it in a way that I think is manageable, right, to make it palatable and not.
Speaker 3I don't know about you guys, but I've been and I've been around people who feel like they're constantly overwhelmed, overworked, working too late. Again tonight, I'm working this weekend. I've got all these things right. There's times for that in our lives, there's seasons for that when it warrants it and deserves it. But at the end of the day, we set our agendas, we set our intentions, we control how we're going to choose to spend our time, and so, pulling it back to that mentor-mentee relationship, greg, I think it boils down to us kind of coming to an agreement, not unlike how we do on our touch bases and our one-on-ones with our teams. What are we working on right now, what's our big rock right this quarter and what do we need to do before the next time we meet in the next two weeks to make sure we've got some traction on that.
Speaker 1I think that's great.
Speaker 2And back to that with the you know, with the time organization, because there are times that you are working a lot and you have to work To get it done. You have to work on evenings or weekends. But I remember early, when I had first started in insurance, someone had told me when you have these big tasks and when you accomplish them and you finally get through that, do something small. It could be something small, but reward yourself. If it means going to a movie with a friend or, you know, meeting for Starbucks with them, you know a coffee, but you know, reward yourself. Give yourself a little treat to get you know afterwards. Don't overwhelm yourself by trying to make time with friends when you're in the middle of a big project, do it right after, have like a celebration, and that's how you can plan it and get through it.
Speaker 3There's a great book written by a guy named James Clear called Atomic Habits. It's been one of the top selling business books recently. James is from Columbus, ohio, dublin, and I got to see him speak the other night at the bookstore in Bexley, terrific and he talks about exactly this. Right, we talk about how our routines become our habits, becomes our success, and that's what that boils down to. And he talks about the cheat codes more or less the hacks, the life hacks that allow us to get more done, that allow effective people to get more things done, and that reward system absolutely a part of that and it's a great read for other great tips of how do we become more effective with the time that we do have and have healthier, more impactful habits Great points.
Speaker 1So, andy, if I'm a leader in a company listening to this right now and I'm thinking, okay, I for sure could need some more mentoring going on in my company, what could I do, or what would be some steps, to either foster that, whether that's a program or whether that's just fostering a culture where that's organic. What could I do, if I'm listening to this today as a takeaway, to maybe take the next steps to have more of that going on in my work environment?
Speaker 3You bet. Let me answer in three levels, okay. So on the first and most basic level is lean in towards action. We can do something. We can do anything. What's one thing we could do before the next week, and that is even identify someone as a potential mentor, set up a meeting, or identify someone as a potential mentee and set up a potential mentor. Set up a meeting or identify someone as a potential mentor and set up a potential meeting right Immediately. Do something. Something is better than nothing Always. Secondly, as a corporate organization, right In our financial services backgrounds, what I would say is I have seen terrific success with what we've set up in the past that we called career pathing.
Advancing Careers Through Intentional Mentorship
Speaker 3So it is understanding where people start in our careers at our organization and understanding what are some example paths that we've seen people take up into leadership, up into quality, up into administration and office back office support, out into the field, right. What were those paths that they took? And then how do we help equip them ahead of that path? How do we what were the things that they were able to navigate and find on their own, and how could we help be intentional about putting more opportunities like that in front of people with those high potential for those opportunities right. So it's it's pathing. So we're working on defining, through our career advancement programs and our annual review programs, who the people are with high potential and we're working to create, probably, things that are already there. But we're just being intentional about setting up the paths, the books, the classes, the programs, and then the kind of the tail end of that, of course, is those folks that we identified, that went on those paths, would be great mentors, right, they've been around the block and they can see things that those folks who are just starting out wouldn't have, and so connecting them from that initial diagnosis to being a part of that partnership working together is tremendously powerful. I've seen that work in multiple organizations working together is tremendously powerful. I've seen that work in multiple organizations.
Speaker 3The third tier and the one that I engage with, which is where my executive mentoring comes in, is, I think it's really valuable for the top level leaders and organizations to have objective third party mentors by design who have no agenda right. So if you're in that executive level or entrepreneurial business ownership role, everybody in your organization's got an agenda. That's not a bad thing, that's a great thing. That agenda is about promoting their business and their welfare and their success. But understanding that it is incredibly valuable to have mentors. And even so, you can use folks like me who are third-party consultants or put together advisory boards right so you could have multiple skill sets, from legal to accounting, to business to marketing. What are the needs of your business? Put together that advisory board. It's a great place to start so that you've got a regular, consistent, frequency feedback loop that you're getting great third party been there before solutions and ideas.
Speaker 1No, I think that's that's a real. Those are some really great steps and you know, I like what you said about identifying those people who have that upward mobility and giving them those opportunities. You know I'll embarrass Natalie for a minute, but she was our she's. You know I'll embarrass Natalie for a minute, but she was our senior adjuster for a while and I know she wanted to be a manager and so HR had said to me you know, we've got our new manager training going on in the company and I said, well, I have somebody who's not a manager and we don't have an opportunity for a manager. But is it okay if I send her anyway, because I think this would be great for her.
Speaker 1And so being open to those ideas, and then later, when those opportunities present themselves, those people are better prepared and already fit. That's right. So sometimes those things come across our path and if we we think about it for a minute, there might be somebody else who can benefit. That may not be immediately the person you would think needs to go to that class or that training.
Speaker 2So I like what you said there and I'm always glad that I got to go. I'm very grateful because I really think that it did help with a lot of the preparation. You know that came when the opportunity came. You know you have that preparation, so I was very grateful for that.
Speaker 3Well, let me, let me flip the script a little bit too. And we're talking a lot right now about DEI opportunities, right, and we don't have enough persons of color in leadership positions. We don't have enough in leadership positions. It just doubles down the need and the opportunity and investment for us to make to create those opportunities. Right, Because not everybody has those matters, because not everybody has that career path. How can we be intentional about setting more people up for success and help us achieve not only another level of great management, another level of great advancement in our careers, but also ones that achieve our diversity, equity, inclusion objectives?
Speaker 1I think you are spot on, and the financial sector is one of those sectors that has some work to do. So, great, great, great points. Well, one of the things that I wanted to touch on that I think I wanted just to get out there is there may be somebody listening who's thinking well, I really want a mentor. I don't have a mentor, how do I find one? And I guess the one thing I would say and then I'm interested in both of your takes on this is sometimes it's just asking you know, like when I ran into Andy. Okay, at that point I was reaching out to everybody because I thought, you know what and you know when you lose your job.
Speaker 1That's embarrassing. Even if it's not your fault. It's not like the favorite time. You want to touch base with somebody, right. But even if you're not in that position and you're in a different position, it's sometimes scary to reach out to people and say, hey, I really would love to learn from you. Would you be willing to teach me or would you be willing to spend some time with me? But I think that that's probably the first step is just having the courage to reach out to people and get outside your comfort zone. And don't be afraid. If you see somebody you're really impressed with, or you see somebody you think you could learn from or who could help, you just ask. And I know for me I don't like to ask for help, so that's hard for me because I'm very independent and I like to do things and I like to feel like I'm in control and I don't need any help. We all need help and so opening ourself up and asking, I think maybe it would be my advice. Andy, what's your advice on finding a mentor?
Speaker 3I'm a big fan of Silicon Valley mentor, a guy named Jerry Colonna, and he's got a phrase give first right. So always try to give first, and this is true for mentors and mentees Great. So if you're reaching out, reach out in a way to meaningfully help somebody right.
Speaker 3People who are your potential mentors need help too, and there's lots of ways that you can help them, or up to and including reaching out and asking how you could help. I'll say, with regards to your and my connection, greg, you didn't just reach out and it wasn't an act of desperation. You had a specific problem you were trying to solve and looking for feedback Like the more specific you can get, the more likely I'm going to be able to lean in and help out or self-diagnose and say that is a real problem or a real opportunity. I'm not your guy, but let me see if I can put you into contact with someone who could help you. Right, the toughest ask that I get is hey, I think I would like to have you as a mentor.
Speaker 2What does that mean? Where are we?
Speaker 3starting. Is it because of? Because it's Fridays, Is it a Friday thing? What's?
Speaker 1the that's a great point.
Speaker 1Being specific is important and you know, knowing what you're asking for really helps and I think that would be another great takeaway. And I love how you said giving. Giving is important and I think that's the other thing is, if you want somebody now I've learned this just as a life lesson if you want somebody to help, you help lots of people and it just comes back around. I don't know why that is. It's just one of those things that when you do good and you help other people, eventually it comes back around. So I love how you said that is just be giving, because if you're willing to reach out and help others, that help will come to when you need it. Others, that help will come to when you need it.
Speaker 1Andy, one of the things I wanted to finish this season with last season, I had everybody share their happiest moment. I feel like there's a lot of negativity in the world in general, whether that's politically divided people or the COVID or the economy. There's just a lot of things that bring people down. So this season, what I wanted to do is have each person share. What is your favorite part of what you do each day, what gets you excited about what you do every day, and so, Andy, I wanted to throw that to you so we can put some good vibes out in the universe.
Speaker 3All good. So the thing that I wake up early for I wake up every day, no alarm clock, and have for several years pretty much since I've been consulting and I feel very blessed to get to do this the teaching and consulting and the thing that gets me up is to know I'm going to be in front of a room or in front of a microphone and have an opportunity to have an audience and have an impact, and I get so excited about it. I just wake up, no alarm, and my mind is immediately racing. I get so excited about it. I just wake up, no alarm, and my mind is immediately racing. I'm already there. It's like I'm half dreaming and half awake.
Speaker 3And then it's like dreaming when I'm out there and getting to share my story or share things in a classroom or facilitate a great strategic planning retreat or an initiatives workshop. Right, it is just a real blessing. That's what gets me so excited. And then the thing that I know that fills my cup is that's an enormous drain of energy. It takes an enormous amount of. That fills my cup is this, all this nerdy reading that I get to do right, fill that cup back up.
Speaker 3and reading the Wall Street Journal every day and I read from books every day and I read about 20 or 30 magazines. I love the opportunity to read and learn and bring that in and make it a part of what I get to share with folks, with classrooms and with the folks that I have the pleasure to advise.
Speaker 1I absolutely love that. I absolutely love that. I think hearing people's passions is always exciting and I know that you're doing a lot of good. I wanted to just for sure. Thank you, andy. I appreciate all the help that you gave me personally and consider you a friend, but also appreciate you taking the time to share some of your thoughts on this.
Speaker 1I think mentors and mentorships are so important and I hope some people listen to this and got a few ideas that they can take away. I always say when I read a book or listen to a podcast, I'm always looking for that one or two things that I can take away and try to implement. So hopefully we have a couple of those today for people and just want to remind people of our motto to do right, think differently and don't forget to care. And that's it for this episode of Adjusted. We hope you'll follow us in future episodes that release every two weeks and, of course, if you want to catch our blog on the off weeks, natalie Dangles provides that for us. So thanks again and we'll catch you next time. Bye everybody, thank you.