ADJUSTED
ADJUSTED
Home Safe for the Holidays 2024 with Dave Rapacchietta
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, ADJUSTED welcomes Dave Rapacchietta, Senior Risk Management Consultant with Berkley Industrial Comp. Dave Discusses some of the aspects of being a Risk Management Consultant and what he looks for to help prevent injuries via Wheels, Gravity, and Complacency.
Season 8 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp. This episode is hosted by Greg Hamlin and guest co-host Matt Yehling, Directory of Claims at Midwest Employers Casualty.
Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkindcomp.com
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com
Hello everybody and welcome to Adjusted. I'm your host, greg Hamlin, from Berkeley Industrial Comp and Sweet Home, alabama, and with me is my co-host for the day, matt Yaling. Matt, you want to introduce yourself.
Speaker 2Hello everyone. This is Matthew Yaling with Midwest Employers Casualty. I'm coming from St Louis, missouri, along the banks of the mighty Mississippi.
Speaker 1Always glad to have you, Matt, With us today. We actually have a good friend of ours, Dave Rapichetta. Dave is our Senior risk management consultant here for Berkeley Industrial Comp. So I like to say they are on the front lines out there with our insureds, inspecting, helping them to be more safe. Dave, could you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 3I've been with the company. It'll be nine years in January. I'm the risk management consultant. As you said, greg, my territory is everything east of Harrisburg, pennsylvania, all through New England, so I'm the East Coast risk management consultant. I do have one client in Missouri. I came to the company, as I said, in 2016, january. Prior to that, I was in the insurance industry with another carrier from 2002 to 2015. This was my second part of my career. The first part of my career, I was in various industries, such as construction, scrap metal, reclamation and the refractory industry. I was found by a gentleman named Greg Barth. He called me one day and I thought I was being punked on a radio station and we had a very pleasant conversation. And it continued on, and on, and on and eventually I became a senior risk management consultant with Berkeley Industrial Company.
Speaker 1That's a great story For those who've not met Greg Barth, if you ever get the chance. He's no longer with our company but he's still in the industry. Greg Barth is a one-of-a-kind character, so just encourage you. If you're at a conference and you see him, you'll know you met him. He always stands out in a crowd and super smart, very knowledgeable in the industry, so didn't know that was your connection. So I'm assuming when you were a small child you thought to yourself I'm going to end up in insurance, right?
Speaker 3I know, but I'm glad I'm here. It's a long story. I went to West Virginia University, I ended up with a master's degree in safety management and my first job out of graduate school was with a construction company out of Pittsburgh. And, as I said, my first 13 years I was in various industry and then, in 2002, I came into the insurance industry. So no, I did not think that's what my life was going to be, greg. It's been a very fulfilling career, I must say.
Speaker 2Dave, what does the day of a senior risk management consultant look like?
Speaker 3Well for me. Once I get up and I get ready, I come over to my computer and I check and see if there's any emails from the previous night. If there are, I start responding to them. I take a look at clients I want to see I try to see clients that are a little bit in the red to see what we can do to help them. I get phone calls through the course of the day, whether they're from internal clients or external clients, and I respond appropriately. My mission is to always give any client a solution to whatever concerns they may have to whatever concerns they may have.
Speaker 2I thought your mission was to keep claims from occurring and make people like Greg and myself unemployed, so that we didn't have claims to handle.
Speaker 3Well what we do when we go out in the field. Our goal is to provide expert risk management solutions, along with our exceptional customer focus. So when I'm out in the field with a client and if I see something that I perceive to be an unsafe act or unsafe condition, we will stop what they're doing and we will have a conversation about what they're doing and I will explain to them why I feel what they're doing is unsafe and what can we do to correct that. So the only time that happens, matthew, as I said, is when I'm in the field. If I'm not in the field interfacing with clients, I'm at the house, at the field office that I have.
Speaker 1Thanks, Dave. So I know you're part of the RAMP department at Berkeley Industrial Comp. Can you talk a little bit about what RAMP means as far as risk management goes here at Berkeley?
Speaker 3Our loss control department is known as RAMP Risk Asset Management Prevention. Our primary mission is to provide value-added service to our clients. In addition to that, we work with our internal clients, such as underwriters, claims business development, and we also work with our external clients, which would be the agents and the actual insureds. We are the safety people from the insurance company. I tell them when I come out, because they're like what's a risk management consultant? I said, putting it in English, we're the safety person from the insurance company. So they appreciate having a different set of eyes come out to see them. We help with training. We do in-person visits to clients' operations to evaluate their risk and our goal at least mine and I believe it's the entire department our goal is to always provide a solution to any concerns from the clients.
Speaker 2That's great. How do you use some of the information maybe you get from underwriting or claims? So in claims I've worked for a couple of different organizations. You know we call them underwriting communiques or risk alerts. How can you work with an account and take that information back? How are you utilizing some of the information that I'm giving you or that Craig's giving you or some of the underwriters are giving you from an account perspective to help our partners ensure that these risks aren't happening?
Speaker 3First thing I like to do is take a look at the loss runs.
Speaker 3Particularly if it's a new client, we see the loss runs from the previous carrier or carriers.
Speaker 3Typically, the type of claims that you're seeing are the type of claims that you're probably going to continue to see unless we're able to effectively change their culture. In addition to looking at loss runs, we take a look at the NAISC code so we can get information from the OSHA website on the type of injuries that you can expect from this type of client. Take a look at the OSHA website or the MSHA website to see what we can find out. Has this client ever been cited before by OSHA or MSHA and, if so, what type of citations did they receive? And you can kind of match up citations with loss runs to see if there's a correlation, which a lot of times there can be. You can see citations with lack of fall protection or no fall protection at all. Then you can look at claims and if there's claims that someone fell, you can say to yourself this is a good area that we can have a discussion with the client, and when you have that data to back it up, it makes life a little bit easier.
Speaker 1One of the questions I had for you, dave, so I know how I might perceive it. If the insurance company sent their risk management person to my facility, I like, oh boy, here they come. They're here to get me in trouble. Tell me all the things I'm not doing right, dave. How do you approach that? And obviously, if you're going to want to get me in trouble, tell me all the things I'm not doing right, dave, how do you approach that? And obviously, if you're going to want to make a meaningful impact, you've got to somehow build a relationship with our insured so that they maybe flip that mindset a little bit. Have you had to deal with that before and how do you do that?
Speaker 3You have to deal with it every time you have a conversation with a new client. Typically the loss control department are the only people that the client's ever going to see from the insurance carrier. So it's imperative that we make a great first impression because in most cases it's difficult, if not impossible, to get a second chance to make a great first impression, if not impossible to get a second chance to make a great first impression. So when I call up to make the initial call to the new client and let them know who we are, who I am, what my function in the company is, here's my cell phone number, here's my email address. I pick up on weekends, I pick up after hours. I pick up if my Steelers or Mountaineers are losing. I let them know that I'm there for them. When I set the appointment, I let them know look, I want to come out, I'd like to meet with your safety person on the job site or whoever handles safety, and we're just going to take a walk through the facility or the construction job site and I'm going to treat it as if this is an informal OSHA inspection. I'm going to let you know what I'm observing, what I see, what I think you could be cited for.
Speaker 3I give them a time range when I'm going to be at the job site and I like to pull in about a half hour early and just sit in the vehicle and do naturalistic observations, because they know you're coming. So here comes the safety person. So I like to get there a little bit early and just observe what they're doing. Are they putting that ladder at a four to one pitch? Is it 36 inches above the landing? Is it secure?
Speaker 3When I see people up on a roof or off the ground, are they tied off? Do they have a body harness on? Well, that's wonderful, but are they tied off? Do they have a body harness on? Well, that's wonderful, but are they tied off? So when I can observe ahead of time and I call it the good, the bad and the ugly I like to take pictures because they're a great learning tool and I'll show them the pictures, and I don't just show them the bad or the ugly.
Speaker 3I will show them all the pictures and I give them an explanation of what I observed and what I'm looking at and why you should consider not doing this anymore, and they get a feel for what I'm doing and they appreciate that. Then you'll start getting a lot of questions or what do you think about this? And they'll take me over and show me something. Think about this and they'll take me over and show me something and then, based on my experience of being in the insurance industry and my previous work life, I have a lot of knowledge. I'm a pretty decent subject matter expert and I can guide them in the right direction.
Speaker 3And I'll tell you what. Greg, when you get a call from that client two, three, five months later and they're calling you because they have something they need to go over, I feel that tells me I did my job. I made a great first impression. Needless to say, I've never been thrown off a job site, which is positive. I've never been asked not to come back and I'm always respectful with everyone, both my internal and my external clients.
Speaker 2Can you give an example of one of your more difficult interactions with an account or a partner?
Speaker 3This was not in the insurance field, but I can. It was a fatality that I had to go and investigate. It happened on a Friday in Detroit and it's 3.30 in the afternoon and it was on mill property and our employee was standing on a mixer platform which was about four feet off the ground and the pin came out that held the articulating legs in position and the employee was crushed between the rallying of our mixer and the wall. So as soon as I was able to get to Michigan which I did that evening and started to, first thing I had to do is go meet with the widow. And that was a difficult thing for me to do. And because I'm sitting there consoling a woman whose spouse died, and I said, ma'am, I don't know what happened at this point, because I'm sitting there consoling a woman whose spouse died, and I said, ma'am, I don't know what happened at this point, but I will assure you that we will do a detailed investigation to determine what happened, which we did. And then, when I got on the mill property, the mill was very hostile and mad, because that's how the mills typically treat their subcontractors, and I explained to them why I'm here, what I'm doing, what I've done so far, and then that diffused the situation and then they were cooperative and talkative. So what we determined was the pin that goes into the dial that keeps it in place. They were not using a Carter pin, they were using a welding rod that they found on the ground. And when I say they, it was the employee. So I had to go back and look at training records and I determined that we weren't training, because with OSHA, documentation is the key to your success or failure with them and if it wasn't documented it didn't happen. Now that employee knew through his years of work the right thing to do was to go find a card to pin to keep that pin in place, and he didn't.
Speaker 3For whatever reason and we'll never know because we could never have a conversation with him that he died burn, where a young man who was a couple of weeks from being married was burned over 90% of his body at a different mill in a different state from slag. Slag is hot molten metal and it was difficult for me once again, because I hate to see anybody get hurt for that matter I had to go into the hospital, I had to go into the burn unit and to try to start talking to him to see what happened, go into the burn unit and to try to start talking to him to see what happened. The conclusion of that investigation was he was an inexperienced young man on a piece of equipment who, in my opinion, didn't have the necessary hours in to operate that piece of equipment. So those are the difficult ones that I've had and you try to make the best of it. You got to get to the bottom of what happened and then you have to bring it to management's attention, which sometimes management doesn't want to hear it, but you bring it to their attention. What happened?
Speaker 3The one that concerned me about the one at the mill in Detroit, michigan, many years ago the company was just thrilled that the OSHA citation was $2,500. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself somebody died and that's all they're concerned about that. We're only going to have to pay OSHA $2,500. And the worker's comp part was rather simplistic, because his adult children were out of the house. There were no young children and we found out that the companion that he was with was not his legal wife. So you could do the math and figure out what we paid for that burial the medical bills from transporting him from the mill site to the hospital and I did a good job on that. Osha was happy with what I accomplished for the company and, as I said, the company was elated that it was a $2,500 citation.
Speaker 1That's a sad story, dave, and one of the things I've heard a lot of times from different risk managers and you'll have to confirm whether you agree with this is that shortcuts kill and it seems like a lot of times some of these accidents happen because somebody takes a shortcut. They're doing whatever they're doing and they don't want to take the extra time to find the pin or the extra time to tie off. Have you noticed that sometimes, dave, where people are just going too fast and taking shortcuts?
Speaker 3100%. Spot on, Greg. People that get hurt are typically in a hurry or there's some complacency involved. For the gentleman who passed away on that rack, on that mixer rack, I've done this for 40 years in complacency. I can't find a pin, I'll just pick up that welding rod on the ground, put it in and twist it. Well, the vibration caused it to come out, which caused the pin to come out, which caused the leg to buckle. So it's complacency. I always talk to the employees look, you're getting paid by the hour. You're here for eight hours a day. Take your time and do it right. Our goal, my goal, is for you to go home every day with all your body parts. So if it takes an extra 30 seconds to five minutes, then it does. But that is spot on, Greg.
Speaker 2Yeah, how do we build a better safety culture? Are there opportunities? I mean, how do you shift that from? You know an insurance carrier, we're outside looking in on the cultures many times. You know. How do we shift the safety culture from that you know, oh, do it quickly to slow down. Take your time, get it done correctly the first time. You know the measure twice cut once versus errors. Result accidents and fatalities.
Safety Training and Building Culture
Speaker 3It's a great question and I think the best way to build a safety culture starts with ownership or senior management, because your safety culture is going to be as strong or as weak as they want it to be. So when I go and visit that new client the first time, I try to see the owner as opposed to the buyer of the insurance, and if there's a safety person with the company as well, I want them involved with that conversation because I'm kind of helping them, I'm kind of being the bull, so to speak, and I let ownership know your safety program is going to be as strong or as weak as you want it to be. Sometimes I'll get some not necessarily pushback, but what do you mean by that? I said you have to lead by example. Do you go out in the field? Do you observe the work? Do you talk to your foreman? Do you talk to your safety person? Do you let them know that safety has to be the first priority? There is safe productivity. Production pays the bills, we understand that, but there is safe productivity.
Speaker 3Continuing on with building a safety culture, do you have a full-time safety person or are you relying on a safety consultant? Do you do new hire safety orientation? Is it performed along with annual safety training, typically? Oh yeah, well, I had them fill out the I-9. Well, no, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm glad you're doing all the legal documentation I-9, w-2, all that but before you put somebody out in the field or in the shop, they should have safety orientation. Well, we have them watch a video. That's a good first step, but how about going over your safety manual? How about going over your safety rules? Let them know that you have a discipline mechanism in place. So that's important.
Speaker 3Also, doing annual safety training, refresher training, not just for new hire safety orientation. Most importantly, document everything you do. Document your safety training. Even if it was verbal, still document it. Osha prefers to see what was written down. What is the curriculum? How do you know that they effectively understood what they received training on? You quiz them. There should be a quiz of that sort. But your safety culture, like I said, it should be ingrained in everyone, not just management, but even the employees themselves. They have to understand that safety is important around here.
Speaker 1So just having a big safety manual that has 300 pages in it that I hand out to my new employees and it ends up on the shelf, that's not enough.
Speaker 3No, and there's a lot. And you know what, greg? It's very interesting because a lot of times you'll say, well, I gave them this to read, that's wonderful, but that's not enough. You should be reading it with them or you should be paraphrasing as they're reading A good safety orientation 40 hours a week of safety training. One day we're going to go over our safety manual. Another day we're going to go over some videos, some bullet points, how to do a safe jaw procedure. Let them know that you have empowerment here, that if you see an unsafe act or unsafe condition, you are able to stop work until we get it resolved. That's building a safety culture, letting employees know that they have empowerment. But yeah, a lot of times you just can't say here, read this. You have to go over it with them.
Speaker 1Do you see issues with and I've just been thinking about this as you've chatted but do you see issues with English not being the primary language sometimes and maybe there's not an understanding of, like there's a communication barrier between what's expected and what they're doing?
Speaker 3Excellent question and, yes, when I have clients that have Hispanic, latino immigrant workers they may not be immigrants legal to work here, of course, but Latino Hispanic I ask how do you know they comprehended what you gave them training on? A lot of times there will be a foreman next to the person who's giving the presentation in English and the form and is translating to the employees. I encourage them, if they're giving documentation for the employees to read, that you have it in Spanish for the employees whose primary language is Spanish. Just don't give them something in English and then have them sign off on that. That's not going to work and there should be a quiz at the end for everybody, a 10-question quiz true and false or circle, the most appropriate answer. It should be in English and Spanish and if the employee doesn't score 7 out of 10, there should be some refresher training. But yeah, language barrier can be challenging.
Speaker 3We had a client years ago when we were American Mining Insurance Group and they had a fatality and this was in the state of Maryland, a state-run plan. So the Maryland OSHA shows up and first thing they ask our client is do you have a safety person? We do. She's on her way here. She was a former iron worker, phenomenal safety person, knew their business inside and out and she was very good with safety. I'm telling you this story for a reason when she gets to the job site that Maryland OSHA inspector Moshe was there and they start going through the documentation. What do you have? Here's all of our training records for this job site. Here are all of our safety meetings.
Speaker 3As you can see, this employee was here. He signed off. She showed the fall protection training that was given and then she showed his paperwork because it was in Spanish for one and he signed off in his quiz and his quiz. And the last question that they asked do you have a discipline program in place? Yes, we do. Here are the people on this job site that have been disciplined. She showed it to the OSHA inspector. She said the employee who died did not have any disciplinary procedures because he was doing everything right or he was not observed. And she said if he had lived he would have been disciplined on this. He had the body harness on, he had the O-ring with the lanyard on and it was a double tie off a yo-yo and what he was doing is he was clipping on to walk and unclip At some point. He was not tied off and he fell to his death.
Speaker 3Osha did not issue a citation on a fatality because documentation is the key to your success or failure with them. They have a written safety manual. They did new, higher safety orientation. She showed it when that person came on board. They did annual safety training. She showed the recent fall protection training that was done within the year when he got a brand new body harness, because typically they should get a new one every year. He happened to have gotten two that year. She retrained him again. So training helps with building a positive safety culture. Training implementing what you have as a safety program Everyone oh yeah, I have a written safety program. How much of it is implemented? What do you mean? Well, let's take a look at your manual and then let's go out in the field and observe what they're doing.
Speaker 2So even in that example it sounds like there's a component of complacency. And what? About examples where it's out of the injured. Employee's know drivers or somebody that has to deal with other surroundings, that's you know that are out of their control. So I'm thinking like maybe motor vehicle more so what are some of the techniques or tips you can give on that?
Safety Practices and Gratitude
Speaker 3Matt over the holiday season. I know we're going to get into that, but I'm going to touch upon it right now. We have what's called Home Safe for the Holidays. We started it back in about 2021. And the three things that we talk about are wills, gravity and complacency, because, as Greg can tell you, looking at the types of claims that we have, those seem to be the three big areas for Berkeley Industrial Comp In our space. We're a high hazard insurer, so wheels is important.
Speaker 3When we find that and when I say we, my peers, when we call and talk to the client for the first time or work the job site and we see vehicles, we ask do you have over-the-road vehicles in addition to front-end loaders, bobcats, lulls, things like that? But when you have over the road vehicles, how many people typically get in the vehicle? Sometimes it's just the person assigned to the vehicle, sometimes it can be up to four or five people If it's a cruise size pickup truck. So do you do MVRs? We asked the client or is your auto carrier running MVRs motor vehicle reports? Because a lot of times an employee may have a suspended license and they don't tell the boss that I lost my license due to a DUI or whatever, because they want to keep working and they don't want to lose that vehicle. And they don't want to lose that vehicle. So then we will start asking what type of fleet safety? Do you have a fleet safety program? If you do, let's take a look at it. If you don't, we will give them resources, a template, to establish a fleet safety program. But getting back to it, are they wearing seatbelts? Is the driver hands-free? We have no problem if they're hands-free, if they have to make a call, but we don't want them holding a cell phone. We don't want them to be distracted by the other employees in the vehicle.
Speaker 3I cringe when I go into central Pennsylvania to check into my hotel for an evening and I see employees with a 30-pack on their shoulder and their meal. They go back, they decompress after a hard days of work and then I hope and they're not my clients, but they could be I hope that the person who's driving that morning is sober. That's something to think about, because OSHA says eight hours before your shift begins there should be no alcohol in your system. So risk management our department, when we are doing what we call free-inspection safety survey on a potential client I had one where they had panel vans and vans were like nine or 12 employees and I would say the inter-rider.
Speaker 3I wouldn't touch this and I would give my example of what I just gave you because I've observed it and particularly when a client this was one that we didn't insure and someone wanted us to write it and we just couldn't. They had a $5 million claim from before five employees were in a vehicle and they got hurt seriously from that. So defensive driving or their telemetrics or vehicles GPS monitor when we hear that I call it a warm fuzzy. So I'll let the underwriter know what they have or what they don't have.
Speaker 1Those are some great examples, dave, and you mentioned this. One of our goals obviously as an insurance company is we want people to be safe, and I'm a claims guy, but in my perfect world we wouldn't see some of these injuries if we took those extra steps. So one of the things we've been doing to really try to spread awareness and I really appreciate the work that your department in particular has done is to have a campaign to get people home safe for the holidays. Everybody's got people they love, people they want to spend time with as we approach the holidays towards the end of the year and there are no matter people's individual faiths.
Speaker 1There are so many different holidays between really November and the end of the year and you throw in some bad weather in there. You know the busyness sometimes in some of these organizations to meet deadlines before the end of the year. Then there can be a lot of accidents. And you mentioned wheels, gravity and complacency. We've talked a little bit about wheels and complacency. Do you want to talk a little bit about where gravity fits in, or at least for what we do?
Speaker 3Gravity is a thing that I when I'm out in the field and if I see somebody who's not tied off or not wearing a body harness, I'm calm. I say to the supervisor can you get them down for a second so we can have a conversation. But it's important to have 100% tie-off and we emphasize it so much with our clients that work up in the air. I mean, you could be three feet off the ground and there's a potential for a catastrophic event and it's just so important that we express to them and get them to understand you have to tie off. It's morally, it's the right thing to do for the employees that work for you. You could have an OSHA issue. If OSHA is driving by a job site, they're mandated. If they see people up in the air or if they see an open trench, they're mandated to stop. Even if they have an appointment somewhere else, they're mandated to stop and take a look. And that man that I described, that one client who died and he was an immigrant Español was his primary language. And that same company, greg, six months later, same thing, almost to the day, and I was on a job site for them in Maryland. I have to tell this because it deals with gravity. So I'm at the job site and I'm with the safety person Heather was her name. I said, heather, I'm looking up. I said I count 10 people, do you? She said yes, and I'm looking at every one of them and I had binoculars in my truck and I pulled them out of my back pocket and I'm looking up at all 10 guys and I see 10 guys wearing body harnesses and I see 10 guys tied off. And I said do you see people tied off as well? She said yes, I do. So we had a good conversation. I was feeling good about that.
Speaker 3I'm driving home, I'm pulling into my town and I get a call from Mike Prickett who used to work for us, this gentleman. He's deceased now. Mike said Dave so-and-so had a fatality. And as I'm using my active listening skills, like you all are now while I'm talking, I'm just like I was just with them. I was with them and I said Mike, where was that at? And he told me and I said you know what?
Speaker 3I was with them today at a different job site and this happened at a university in Maryland and Marilyn Osher shows up like oh my God, it's them again. So same thing, immigrant iron worker and he just got complacent, didn't double tie off. Someone's talking to him, he's turning to respond to this, he's walking. He goes down eight stories. So complacency happens, particularly with fall protection. Oh, it's just, it's okay, it's no big deal, it's just a minute. 35 years ago I would remember the iron workers riding the ball of the crane to go up in the air. You're not allowed to do that. They would shim up the beam. You're not allowed to do that.
Speaker 1So it's come a long way, but there's still people out there that want to be complacent, that want to take that shortcut. They don't want to go down to the gang box and get the body harness on with the lanyard or have the right lany. Just how important it is, and I felt, like you know, on the claim side, especially since we focus on high hazard, we probably see one of these a year, one or two of these a year where the person is either no longer with us or severely injured because just the simple fact of not tying down, tying in, having the correct fall protection. I truly appreciate getting a chance to pick your brain a little bit.
Speaker 1One of the things that we've been trying to do, or that I always feel like I try to do, is put some good vibes back in the universe, and there's enough negativity out there that I feel like we've got to put some of that back, and so one of the things I've been asking each of our guests is just to share something they're grateful for. There was a quote I heard lately that our capacity for happiness is limited by our capacity for gratitude, and so I've been thinking about that a lot and just trying to make sure I do a better job in my own life, and I love hearing what other people have that's going well on their own. So, dave, is there something today that you're feeling especially grateful for?
Speaker 3There's a number of things, greg, and thanks for writing that question to me. The two young adult children I have now. I'm proud of their accomplishments, their work ethic. They learned from me as their father. They go to class. They're in college. They go to class. I told them real simple don't miss class, sit in the first two rows, you should get at least a C. If you communicate and you do the homework, you should make a B and if you test well, you should come out of there with an A. But don't miss class. And I'm grateful for my children.
Spreading Gratitude and Safety
Speaker 3I'm grateful for working at Ben, my colleagues in my department and, throughout the company, my other internal clients. It's been a tremendous experience for me. I'm not a job hopper. In 35 years of work I've been with five companies and I'm coming up on nine years here. I'm very proud of that. My health I'm grateful for my health. I exercise daily. I go to the gym. Our company's kind enough to give us a gym membership and I take advantage of that. One of the things I'm grateful for as a veteran. I am a volunteer with an organization called the PA Hero Walk. We walk across the state of Pennsylvania every year for two weeks in June, 320 miles over 14 days and thank you. And the money we raise is to give away to Pennsylvania veterans and I've been doing that for nine years. It was a bucket list thing and I thought I was a one and done and now I'm the president. I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful. I take great joy when I can help a veteran.
Speaker 1I love that, Dave. What a great way to end. I really do think the world needs a lot more of that. So that's my goal. I'm not going to change everything, but we're going to put some good stuff out there every time we can. I appreciate having you on the podcast, Dave. I always appreciate Matt co-hosting with me, and I just really encourage all of our listeners to be safe as we move towards the end of the holiday season into the holiday season, to watch out for those wheels, gravity and complacency. We want lots of hugs at the end of the year with all the people we want to have in our lives, and with that I'm going to close out and remind our folks to do right, think differently and don't forget to care. And that's it for this episode. Thanks everybody, Thank you.