ADJUSTED

Season 4 Wrap Up

December 12, 2022 Berkley Industrial Comp Season 4 Episode 49
ADJUSTED
Season 4 Wrap Up
Show Notes Transcript

ADJUSTED welcomes the Co-Hosts and Crew to wrap up and reflect on season 4.

Season 4 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp.

Comments and Feedback? Let us know at: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/F5GCHWH

Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkindcomp.com
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com

Greg Hamlin:

Hello, everybody and welcome to adjusted. I'm your host, Greg Hamlin. And today we are doing our season four wrap up episode. So I've got everybody with me today. I've got Natalie dangles from our Las Vegas office, Jacob Holmes in the background as our editor. And then I have Matt Yaling with MEC, Midwest employers and Mike Gilmartin. Also with us from key risk. And our very own actuary, Matt Murphy. So bent the whole game. So wanted to just kind of go around and have everybody maybe I know I mentioned everybody on the call. But if you could just, you know, say your name and and your title and how you're involved in adjusted. That'd be awesome. So let's start with you, Matt.

Matt Murphy:

Oh, that's ambiguous. I got two bats today, right.

Matthew Yehling:

Sorry. Matt Murphy, you go first.

Matt Murphy:

Yeah, sure. I'm Matt Murphy. The actuary here is, as Greg said, at Berkeley industrial. So, you know, when he needs me to jump on a podcast, he kind of just walks over to my offices and says, you know, hey, I need you on this. What do you think about it? And my question for you, Greg, this year, I was kind of shocked when you were like, Hey, we got Bob Hartwig, I locked him down as a guest. And I was like, Yeah, I mean, I used to seeing him a lot, you know, at events every year. And so I would ask you, is this your biggest poll? Is this your biggest celebrity that you've gotten on the podcast or not even close?

Greg Hamlin:

Well, I think it's up there. I think probably my biggest still is Dr. Baden just because having the guy that had like his own HBO special, that's pretty, that was a pretty big one. And I was surprised he said, Yes, but Bob was the same way. Bob's done a lot in the work comp industry. And really, you know, about his work comp famous as you get on the actuarial side as far as looking at data and kind of being the predictor of the future of what the economy is going to do and how work comp plays into that. So that was exciting. And I was actually, you never know, in they, what did they always say you miss 100% of the shots you don't take? So you always ask and worst people do is they don't respond. Yeah. Well, I

Matt Murphy:

say, you know, you got to just keep increasing that. You know, let's try to get Obama on here for the next season. Works, man. Great. Yes, we can.

Matthew Yehling:

Matt. Hey, Greg, and everyone. This is Matthew Yaling. From Midwest employers casualty. So Midwest is an excess carrier, MEC. And I personally, I thought that Michael Gilmartin was the biggest workout celebrity you had. Often your co host. I look, I don't even know what it were come celebrity is I'm not sure those two words gonna sentence together.

Greg Hamlin:

That's fantastic. Well, we're glad to have Matt with us. You know, Matt's done a number of these with me. I think both Matt and Mike had been with adjusted since season two. And so it's at least been a year and a half of them being involved in we're wrapping up two years of the podcast on my end, so I appreciate them hopping on board for the for the ride. Mike, you want to introduce yourself?

Matthew Yehling:

Yeah, no, it's been fun. Mike Gilmartin with key risk based out of now High Point North Carolina as opposed to Greensboro since we moved offices. And yeah, happy to be here. Really enjoy doing these with you, Greg. And I feel like I'm better at it than Matt. So you know, if you want to do more fun,

Greg Hamlin:

that's great. I like a little healthy competition. I've got also with me today a couple of the other Justin stars that don't get as much credit for the work they do once Natalie dangles. So Natalie does our blog. She also did an episode with me this time and it's popped on a couple times throughout adjusted so you probably heard her before but Natalie, let you introduce yourself.

Natalie Dangles:

Hi, I'm Natalie bangles. I'm the regional resolution manager in Las Vegas, Nevada. And I've been doing the blog now for almost two years. I love it. And we had a great episode this season with Andrew Shakuni. And I loved recording that that was a lot of fun. It's dialing

Greg Hamlin:

Natalie's always the best so you can always count on her when everything everything else hits the fan Natalie's there to rescue the day. So I think on the Andy shocked me, I think I actually forgot to invite a co host. And I was like, oh boy, we got this recording in 15 minutes. And I was like, hey, Natalie, you want to do one with me? She's like, Yes. And she did a good job. So thank you really appreciate her. She also does so much work on the blog. And if you haven't checked that out, you definitely should summarizing a lot of the topics that we cover. Next up also doesn't get enough credit for everything he does as Jacob Holmes. He is our editor. So Jacob, if you could again introduce yourself, I always say I have teenagers in my house and they're always doing this now. app chats tough with filters so that they look amazing. And I always say Jacob's my audio filter to make us look like Rockstar, so definitely deserves some credit.

Jacob Holmes:

Well, thanks, Greg, it is a lot of work getting these podcasts on, people don't realize how much time goes into editing one of these episodes, I think it comes out somewhere between four and six hours per episode. And I manage that on top of adjusting claims on the side. Well, I guess this is technically on the side. But you know, it doesn't feel like it most of the time.

Greg Hamlin:

We appreciate Jacob, he's been great. He came to us as an intern. And now he's in our claims team and also helps with the editing. So everybody wears a lot of hats. And we appreciate everything he does. Finally, we have another Natalie in the background. So Natalie Gaines is in our marketing team. So if you've seen our posts online, you know, on LinkedIn and different places like that Natalie is behind that think there was a video clip she also helped put together. So I don't know if Natalie, if you want to unmute and say hello,

Natalie Gaines:

Thanks, Greg. Yes, it's been great being a part of the team and excited to promote adjusted this year, just with some great recognitions that we got from bloom and some other folks about being one of the best podcast in our industry. So we're excited to be able to share that with everybody.

Greg Hamlin:

Yeah, it was super exciting. For those who hadn't heard we were nominated for the Best podcast workers comp, by blue magazine. So that's exciting. So second time that we've been recognized. So certainly appreciate that. It's been a fun journey, the last two years as we've done this, and we're thinking about the future. And what's next. So

Matthew Yehling:

is there more than one podcast for workout break?

Greg Hamlin:

You know, are we I like to feel there is only one and it's adjusted. But there are others that have followed in my wake. Matt, Matt has his own podcast, he started up. So for those who aren't listening, he could check out his on NBC, but there's a number of them out there now. Oh, no, I don't know if my mom listens to the other. So that makes this one very special. So from there, I want to just to go over our season and talk about like what stood out. And for each of your episodes, and kind of what the journey was like this time, you know, each of you has been a host of different times. So Natalie, I'm gonna throw this one first one to you hosting an episode with Andy was new. And of course, I didn't give you as I mentioned a whole lot of lead time to just hop in there and do it. So talk to us a little bit about that. What was your experience? Like? What was hard? Well, I've

Natalie Dangles:

really, really, I mean, it was, he's such a positive person. So and he's very upbeat. So it made the interview very easy, you know, to ask him questions, because he just is a very positive person. And what really stuck in my head is when he said, when someone asked for help, help them, you know, do favors for people. And, you know, always make that connection. But also be mindful of who you spend your time with. You know, when you have time with people, you have to make it intentional when you're coaching someone or mentoring someone. And that really stuck with me you do you have to put things on the calendar. I even do that with my friends, we put things on the calendar, because we usually will meet up every two weeks or once a month. But I noticed when we don't put it on the calendar and make it intentional, that you know, two to four weeks can end up six to eight weeks. So we do we set our calendars before we leave, you know when we're done with lunch or a dinner,

Greg Hamlin:

great tips, great tips. And Andy has a lot of fun. So it made things very easy to have his personality there where he could just kind of pull things along. Now you've done a lot of these and now that you're doing your own podcast like to hear from you. What's your experience co hosting versus doing your own.

Matthew Yehling:

But I think that the biggest difference is there's a lot more behind the scenes work that goes on when you're the primary host and you know, kind of the production and finding the who you're going to talk to, and what's the discussion going to be like? So, you know, you're you're nice and polite, and you give me you know, some scripted questions almost where it's like, Hey, here's the professional, I usually go back and look up, you know who we're going to be talking to, and try to find out a little bit more information about them. But when you're a co host, you know, that's pretty easy to ask, you know, in the prep time lead up when you're the lead host and I think responsible for more than behind the scenes stuff. There's a lot more that than you probably get credit for and recognition for. So I think that's probably the biggest thing that I that I've noticed. Yeah,

Greg Hamlin:

there's a lot that people don't get to see. And there's a lot of coordinating that goes on and doing it. You know, I think what I've enjoyed about both Matt and Mike is you're both pretty good about thinking on your feet and asking good questions. And for those who don't know, we always put out kind of a rough outline together. But I like it. You know, people have listened. We try to keep it very conversational. So part of that is I don't want it to be like a scripted interview. So that part of that requires the co host to be able to think from their feet and ask different questions. Mike, you know, on your end, you've been doing this for a while. What's been fun in the process and what stuff is the audience maybe missed out on?

Matthew Yehling:

I think the whole process is fun. I would agree with Matt. I mean, you do all the legwork. So coming in with kind of a rough By outline and kind of looking up the guests before we get on is kind of the extent of it. And then what I love most about it is driving the conversation based off of what the other person says. So it's cool to have an outline, but it's enjoyable to just have a conversation. And so I think that's probably the coolest part about it. And the one I was on for FCS, that guy was like a shot of energy in the arm. I guess I would say on the flip side, I think what what makes it a little bit difficult, and you know, the strength is, at times the guests kind of just sticks with the script, or just answers the questions. And that's it. And so trying to get more out of the person and trying to make it sound conversational, that becomes a little bit difficult. I think that's when, like you and I, or you and Matt will speak more and more on the podcast. But overall, it's been it's been awesome. And I really do enjoy doing them. And it's a lot of fun to meet all these people.

Greg Hamlin:

You're exactly right. But I always find that that's hard is when they you know, you ask question, they kind of just give you the yes, no answer. And you're like, Oh, where do we go from here? Or sometimes and you and I won't say which ones, you'll have to listen on your own. You'll have a guest that just goes on for a really long time and have really interesting questions that I really genuinely want to ask. But by the time they're done talking, the topic has changed like three times. So it's hard to like, go back and then ask another question after that. So there's definitely some challenges in the whole thing. And I always joke that Oprah Winfrey makes it look easy. But when you like actually have to interview people. It's harder than it looks sometimes. So let's kind of go through some of the episodes. Matt Murphy, I wanted to start with you. You kicked it off this year. And I chose Matt, because you know Bob Hardwick's background, even when he starts talking about the economy, and he starts talking about trends. I felt like as a claims guy, I wasn't as qualified as bringing in our chief actuary, Matt Murphy. So Matt, what stood out to you in that in that discussion?

Matt Murphy:

Yeah, yeah, good question. First off, just just honored to be sitting down with Bob Hartwig. Honestly, I was, I was shocked when you got him as a guest. And I would ask you, Greg and everybody else, was it a little nerdy for this podcast? Was it a little different? We're talking inflation, we're talking medical inflation. You know, I felt it was a little bit wonky at times. But what do you think, Greg? Do you think it was approachable?

Greg Hamlin:

I thought it was but I thought it was good. And part of it was it was something different, right? Like we I like to put different content out there. And I thought he top tackled stuff that normally we might not tackle on the claim side when he starts talking about, you know, medical inflation or the economy and what to expect as far as recession and, you know, are things as bad now, as they were in the 70s? You know, that's when I was born. So I didn't live through that timeframe. But you know, you hear about in the news and the media, how stressful things are, I think all of us have seen inflation impact us. So understanding how that fits in to workers compensation. I think it's interesting, because we're seeing it in our own lives. But maybe we don't know how that fits into the bigger picture of the industry. What do you think that? Yeah,

Matt Murphy:

you know, I think, having sat through some of Bob's talks, like he puts on a tour de force of like, you get one hour, and it's an onslaught of information. So in one way, I think we did a good job of, you know, keeping it contained, obviously, he's great. Well, he could talk for hours on this stuff. But, you know, the thing I liked the most about Bob really is, he's got this best of both worlds, right? So he knows the history of insurance, right? We were talking Hurricane Andrew through COVID. But I think the cool thing is he's, he's a professor right at South Carolina, I believe. So he's constantly surrounded by young kids, right, or college kids. So he's getting is sort of like my mom was a teacher. And she would, she would always be telling me oh, this is the new hit song. And I was like, how do you know this bomb? And it was cuz she was a teacher, and she was surrounded by the youth. So I think we touched on that a little bit with him. When we started talking about his students graduating into roles, and what does a remote job look like post COVID. Right. Is it better to actually have a butt in a seat for mentorship purposes? So I really saw well rounded Bob Hartwick that, you know, could do the history could talk about the 70s, ad nauseam, but also saw things through a younger lens byproduct of being a professor. So I was excited about that. But you know, honestly, personally, at the time, and still is for all of us. Inflation was the topic, right. And especially through complex medical inflation. You know, on the indemnity side, we usually have this lever of Yeah, if the indemnity is more expensive, while they're getting paid more, and that times the rate kind of offsets it, so our payrolls are up, but the medical side is the scary thing. And, you know, I think he teased us with, he expects that to be go back to more of the long term trend to be higher. But you know, that's the thing with the economy, though, Greg is, you know, we could have this conversation today and there'd be completely new things to talk about. So it's, it was really just cool for me to get a finger on the pulse and see things through rhubarb heartbreaks ice, so I thought it was a great episode not and I'm hopeful that the rest of the adjusted audience wasn't just like, oh God, here's an economist and an actuary. Like, all right.

Greg Hamlin:

No, I thought it was great. And I, I agree with what you said about him, celebrating the successes of his students was really cool to hear about. And it really led into our next topic, which was mentorship. And Natalie and I had the chance to interview Andy and, you know, I mentioned in that episode, Andy and I go back, you know, playing Dungeons and Dragons at a convention, it's about the nerdiest, if you think actuarial stuffs nerdy, I think that got you beat on that. So I agree, That's gonna say, so that's how I met him. But you know what I went through a period of my life where I needed help. And he was there and was an excellent mentor. And it was fun to hear him talk about mentorship and what it means to be a mentor and how to do that. For others. Natalie, what stood out to you on that podcast?

Natalie Dangles:

Well, there was a lot of things, but just his, his such a positive nature. And I think when you're around someone, and you're listening to someone like that, it just it permeates, I mean, it can't help but you know, feel positive, like I was in a great mood the rest of the day, I mean, I'm usually in a good mood, but, you know, extra, he's just, I like what he had to say about it, you know, everything's intentional, and really be mindful of, you know, who you spend your time with. And your, you know, network is your net worth, that was, you know, his, it's so true, you know, to always surround yourself with people and that are I don't know, like minded and have the same type of goals. And I just, I got a lot out of that episode, I really enjoyed speaking with him.

Greg Hamlin:

Yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a good friend. And it was a fun episode for me to do to get a chance to kind of do something a little off the beaten path that I think is really important. Our industry definitely needs more of it. Yes. The next one was actually fascinating, because Jacob Holmes, who's our editor, he actually volunteered his father to be a guest. And Matt and I had the chance to interview him and talk about EMS work. And that's something that we have not ever done. And you know, from a worker's comp standpoint, on the claim side, we're always seeing injuries. But we rarely have ever really thought about, well, what does that look like through the lens of an EMS worker? And I thought that was really cool. Matt, what stood out to you in that episode?

Matthew Yehling:

Yeah. So I mean, the probably the biggest thing that stood out to me was, you know, obviously, the EMS workers are the first ones on the scene after you know, a coworker or somebody at the employer, whoever's, you know, calls in calls 911, or whoever gets, they get there. But James had an extremely positive attitude and uplifting on like, how he approaches that and his approach to treating the injured employee. And then he really talks about the level of information that they collect. And I think from a work comp perspective, a lot of times that's probably overlooked, in large part in our investigation of some claims, and where it might be important from a perspective of, you know, where was the injured employee situated? And what was the angles where, you know, were they on a hill where they're inclined to, like, you know, the level of detail and stuff that he collected, I was actually surprised. Some of the examples he gave, and potentially that could be overlooked information when you're when you're thinking about the investigation of a claim, but that the other thing that jumped out to me is like, just his positive nature, really, you know, hopefully, I never have to, you know, EMS called for me, but hopefully, the EMS technician or whoever arrives is, as positive, as James was, and his approach to his employment, he definitely had a passion for the field. And I think, you know, Greg always asked, you know, you learned about this in kindergarten, or you wanted to do this, you know, for, you know, from a young age, and he commented that he learned in his high school career fair, and, you know, basically started pursuing that career ever since then. So, really, really positive, uplifting experience and hearing him and how his take on you know, injuries and how he approaches that, and then just the learning a little information about, you know, how we can better the work comp arena by you know, making sure we're asking for that information and getting that information. I think we always think of like police reports and things like that, but the medical collection that really starts, you know, when that EMS person arrives, if you have that severe injury. So those are a couple of takeaways I had from that.

Greg Hamlin:

Yeah, I noticed the same thing. He had such a positive attitude. And he brought up some things I just had never thought about, I'd never thought about like keeping the medications you're on in on a list in your wallet, like having our insurance do that because you don't think about it. But when somebody's unconscious, and they are trained to treat them, they need to know what medications they're on before they can administer medication. So to me, I was like, Well, that just seems like such an obvious thing that I'd never thought of. So there were definitely some things there. I think from a safety perspective, we could do different or better that just by talking to him became aware to me, and that actually led to that Next episode, which was home safe for the holidays, and I had a great time with this, I was the sole host of this one. But I actually shared the spotlight with our ramp team, which is our risk assessment management prevention team. And they do a really nice job working with our insurance to keep them safe. And obviously, this time of year, everybody wants to be to spend time with your family. So it was great to hear from them and talk about how sometimes it's still shortcuts that we take that that get us and how to be more safe, some of the things that can be done from a safety perspective so that our employees are safe, because ultimately, that's the best outcome as if we never have to deal with a claim. Because we we did things the right way. So I thought that was great. It was a great call out to the work they do that sometimes doesn't get noticed. You know, we have our own safety professionals that go out and work in the field with our insurance to help them since we do write high hazard workers comp. And they're pretty special and pretty talented. So it was great, great chance to hear from them. And then that led us to fcpe Balanced Testing. And Mike, you talked about this. So I had ran into Josh, who was our guest that day, at a conference actually we've met a couple times over the last year or two. And he is just like, I don't know if he like just take straight adrenaline or what but he that guy is amazing. Like he is the most positive, energy filled guy I've ever met. And I realized we've never talked about functional capacity exams or Balanced Testing. And I thought that would be a fun topic, Mike, what stood out to you talking to Josh,

Matthew Yehling:

probably just that either made lines like Red Bull or coffee, or it's unbelievable, like how much energy the guy had. But the biggest thing that stuck out to me talking to him. And I mean, it sounds like he has like 5 million things that he's doing. And he's all over the place for them. And but when we talked a lot about setting proper expectations, I think the biggest thing he said to me that hit home to me was I don't automatically tell people what they want to hear I tell them what's realistic, because that at the end of the day is what matters. And so he talked a lot about meeting a family of a gentleman that thing and it's really a TBI. And you know, she was told by a couple different facilities that it was gonna be six weeks, and he was in the out of there and his rehab would be good. And and he basically just said, That's not accurate. He's like, You want me to be union? You want me to be honest? Or do you want me to tell you what you want to hear. And he laid out the treatment plan. And it was much longer than they had been told. And they ended up picking his facility and working with him because he was honest and straightforward with them. And so I think that's probably the biggest thing that that I tried to remind myself of is, you know, people don't always want to hear what they want to hear being realistic. And being upfront and being honest about the expectations that you set are key, whether you're talking to an employee that works with you works for you, your family or anybody, it doesn't matter, just being realistic, and setting those real expectations are huge. And so that's probably the biggest thing I took from talking to him.

Greg Hamlin:

I agree. And the other thing with Josh, that was, I was almost taken aback a little bit normally I end every episode asking people like, you know, what keeps them going, or what's it gets them excited about what they're doing? And Josh was like, Well, I'm gonna flip that question and ask you, and I was like, Okay, so, you know, he, he was fun, he had a lot of energy, and he wasn't afraid to, you know, turn the tables, and I just, I couldn't, anybody who needed treatment, I think they do an excellent job there in Jacksonville, I just would recommend their facility, really impressed with what he's doing and what their their hospitals doing for others. And then that took us to kind of an interesting one that Matt and I did. We talked about the spine surgeons quest to treat chronic pain. And you know, something any of us that have been in adjusting for any amount of time on the work comp side have seen failed back surgeries. It's sad. I've seen it. I know Matt seen it. I'm sure Mike has seen it, where operations are performed and the person's not better, or they have a new kind of pain. And then you start talking about another level that they need to do surgery on. So I thought this was an interesting perspective to tackle. I'm still piecing together what I think about all of it, because I just thought it was fascinating. That what did you think, in our interview?

Matthew Yehling:

Yeah, I mean, Dr. David Hanscom. I mean, he literally wrote the book on this, right. So he's, he's a professionally trained surgeon for spine surgery. And he basically tells people now not to have spine surgery. So I mean, that that alone is powerful. But then he tells goes into deeper reasons why and that, you know, he was very vulnerable about like, his own story and his own experiences of being a chronic pain sufferer for years. So, I mean, literally wrote the book, and then he's not just doing that, I mean, he's tackling this very difficult topic, you know, that to tell somebody that they don't need spine surgery that's already heard that is very difficult in the work comp space. Everyone thinks, you know, there's a quick fix to everything. And, you know, he's basically telling people, you know, the counter, you know, something they don't want to hear, right. So if you're told, Oh, you know, a spine surgery is going to correct your issue. You know, he's basically telling people now you're probably better off not having the surgery and two years cuz you're going to be in a better situation than you're at now than if you would have had the surgery. And, I mean, we see a lot of those claims, like you mentioned, and from an access perspective, we see a lot of failed backs, a lot of repeat surgeries, a lot of spinal cord stimulators, a lot of escalation. So I really enjoyed, like hearing him, give all these examples, listening to his book was very good. So I would encourage people to go out and get a copy, it's on the different available audio book services out there. And then he has an app, right, so he's developed an app called voc, that is basically a tool to help injured employees are help those suffering from chronic and or acute pain, address their chronic pain, and, you know, walk them through that process. I mean, he's really tackling this very difficult subject. And in multi levels, and from the app perspective, you know, writing the book, and his own kind of tale and experience of his own journey, I think, was very powerful. So, man, very interesting, a lot of content that was discussed in that that interview, you alluded to a little earlier, like, you know, you ask him one question, and it took you down like a very lengthy thing, like an all very great information to learn, and to hear. And some very interesting, I would encourage, if you hadn't listened to that one, go back, play Dr. Hans gums thing. And if you'd learn, you know, a couple pieces, a couple of nuggets out of that one, I think it's worthwhile to listen to his book or to go read his book, too. And if you have chronic pain, go look at the app that he's developed in the app store. I think it's just called voc. Those were a couple of takeaways I had from that one.

Greg Hamlin:

I, you know, it's interesting. So my brother was actually in town this last week for Thanksgiving, and he has chronic back pain, then he's had back surgery. I had a, like a disc fragment that was impinging a nerve. And he had the surgery and wasn't any better after the surgery. And I was asking him the other day, while he was in town, you know, what do you feel like makes the biggest difference for you and your back, and he said, You know, it's real funny. It's like having regular sleep, not having, if I my anxiety and stress is high, I find my back pain is really bad, and I can't do stuff. But when I'm managing those things, and I'm getting regular sleep, I can find I can do activities that I didn't think I could do. And it was fascinating, cuz it correlated almost exactly with what Dr. hazchem was talking about us. And you've got to check this book out, Mark. You know, it's like spot on. So that really was something that, you know, made me think about it again, just this last week of how write some of these things, maybe for some individuals, so so we wrapped up with reserving, which is something we've never tackled. And, you know, I started thinking about I was like, how do we make it through nearly four seasons have adjusted, and we've never talked about reserving in a claims podcast, like we need to fix that. So we had Julianne and for those who don't know, Judy Greer is an employee of ours, we're actually very fortunate to have her as part of our team. She, in a prior life managed, basically the entire examining for a large fortune 100 insurance company. And so to have her on our cat team, is very special, because she has so much experience. And she tackled a topic, I thought she did a fantastic job talking about reserving. And that's can be a tough topic, because different companies may have different ways of looking at that. So now, what did you What stood out to you? Or what did you think of that?

Matthew Yehling:

Yeah, that really did an excellent job like you, like you mentioned. And, you know, she's very humble. You know, she even commented like, when she started her career, right? She, she had an attorney call and say, Hey, and she basically said, Hey, are you a good guy or a bad guy, and the attorney said, you know, you need to force me on to your supervisor, because I'm the bad guy, right? Or whatever. She's very, very humbling in that regard. But she did a good job of kind of defining, like, what a reserve means and the implication to you know, why actuarial would care and why underwriting cares and why it matters, that sales and I think sometimes we get very siloed and we talked about that a little during the podcast where you become siloed and claims only understands what this means to them. And they're not thinking of it from a broader business perspective. So she did a great job defining you know, the significance of reserves and why you know, actuarial is care about consistency and you touched a little bit of that about that during the podcast as well. So great job defining that you know, I kind of gave my disclaimer like hey, you know, we're not telling you anything we're doing here like with our own reserving but generally, I would say most companies have the same general reserving philosophy of you know, reserving most probable or you know, known outcomes are most likely to happen outcomes, whatever your overarching reserving philosophy is, and Julie did a great job of tackling that and it took a huge kind of thing and we've tried to simplify these these topics as much as possible. She did a great job.

Greg Hamlin:

I completely agree and she was a you know, for those who don't know, she He was actually super nervous. She was like, I don't think I can. I'm not really a public speaker. I'm like, well don't think of it that way. We're just gonna have a conversation. And she's like, well, I'll probably talk fast. And it'll be done in 10 minutes. And we were able to get a full episode. And she did just a really nice job. So I want to just finish by saying thank you to everybody. This podcast is impossible with a lot of people volunteering a lot of time. This is nobody's day job. It's more of a passion project where people help out and I just appreciate all the efforts that everybody has put into it. I think we've done something incredibly special over the last two years, covering so many different topics with so many different guests broke ground, I think, in workers comp, I have learned so much I think we're a better company through this journey, because of the people that we've met and the ideas that we've been able to share. And many of them implement because of the the journey that we've been on. And so, with that I'll wrap up season four by saying thank you for everybody who listens, and everybody who helps out and remember to do right, think differently. And don't forget to care. Thanks, everybody.