ADJUSTED

The Power of Mentorship with Andrew Shockney

September 19, 2022 Berkley Industrial Comp Season 4 Episode 43
ADJUSTED
The Power of Mentorship with Andrew Shockney
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, ADJUSTED welcomes Andrew Shockney Professor at Ohio State University and founder of What Box Consulting. Andrew discusses the power mentorship can bring to both individuals and businesses.

Season 4 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp. This episode is hosted by Greg Hamlin and guest co-host Natalie Dangles, RESOLUTION Manager for Berkley Industrial Comp.

Comments and Feedback? Let us know at: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/F5GCHWH

Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkindcomp.com
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com

Greg Hamlin:

Hello everybody and welcome to adjusted. I'm your host Greg Hamlin coming at you from beautiful Sweet Home Alabama, in Berkeley industrial calm and with me is my co host for the day Natalie dangles. Natalie, do you want to introduce yourself for everyone?

Natalie Dangles:

Hello, everyone, I'm Natalie dangles, I'm the regional resolution manager in the Las Vegas office at Berkeley industrial comp.

Greg Hamlin:

I'm lucky enough that I get to work with her. So I'm glad to have her here today. And for people who don't know if you follow our blog, Natalie is the one that's doing all the hard work behind the scenes on that. So you'll recognize her from that. We have a special guest with us today. Andy shock me who's a professor at The Ohio State University and founder of what box consulting Andy, if you could say hello to everybody.

Andrew Shockney:

Good afternoon, Greg, pleasure to be with you today.

Greg Hamlin:

Glad to have you, Andy. So, Andy, and I go back a little ways. But before we get to that, I wanted you to tell us a little bit about your story. And how did you end up in consulting and teaching? And did you know like, is that where you saw yourself when you were in kindergarten?

Andrew Shockney:

Well, no, I was either going to be James Bond or Neil Armstrong when I was in kindergarten. But that did not work out as as often happens a default to to other things like business, I had a wonderful opportunity to do an internship, my senior year in college, working at Merrill Lynch, totally got that getting to help people to help themselves create a legacy, provide for their families was just magical, absolutely love that. So went on to do 10 years in corporate working in banking. I'm a reformed banker, don't hold it against me, please. I learned an enormous amount in that time did my MBA while I was working there. And then 10 years working for entrepreneurs, which is really my strong desire to want to be an entrepreneur, I actually was running around at the banks, leading mutinies and transforming organizations and kicking down walls and doors and creating centralized operation centers and providing way more effective ways and efficient ways to provide services. And so it's better to do that externally, not in big corporate environments. So 10 years working for entrepreneurs. And even that whole time, I was acting like a consultant, I always had wanted to be I'd worked with McKinsey and Nolan Consulting Group, when I was at the banks love that work, wanted to do that for a living but didn't want to have to travel around the country. And so thought someday I'll be able to do this not just with entrepreneurs, but other publicly traded and large companies here in central Ohio, where I grew up and nearby here in Ohio, and and so to 2016, after locking in a strategic plan, I was leading strategy and customer experience at a company called 31. Gifts here and headquartered here in Columbus, Ohio. I went immediately into my boss and CFOs office and said, This is what I want to do this is absolutely and I hope you'll continue to be a client, which 31 was, and I want to go find other clients and do that continue to do this. And I think of the teaching that I get to do I teach the two marketing capstone classes at The Ohio State University. I think that is really my way to give back. I love the opportunity to keeps me young to work with students that such so brilliant, they're so full of so many great ideas. And they are a captive audience. Greg, they'll listen to my crazy.

Greg Hamlin:

That's fantastic. Well, I love your story and how you got to where you are. Now, before we get too far into this, I want to kind of connect how Andy and I met. So, you know, for those who don't know, I'm gonna reveal a secret about myself. I'm a huge nerd. So I love board games, and Dungeons and Dragons. So I'm out now everyone can hear my secret. And so anyway, I go to a couple of these big game conventions. And I actually met Andy playing Dungeons and Dragons, believe it or not, not through business connections, even though we're both in the financial sector. So, interestingly enough, that friendship that you know, we met maybe once a year to play, play some games took me to 2018, which I think a lot of people can relate to this, and have been through this experience where your career is going amazing. You're doing everything right. And you come into the office one day and find out Wait a minute, I don't have a job. And so I went through that in July of 2018. And going through that experience, the first thing I did was start to reach out to people, everybody. And you know, it's interesting. Having gone through that I contacted everybody I knew on Facebook, anybody I knew from my professional career or, and each morning, I'd spend three or four hours networking just reaching out to people to see who might know an opportunity that I might not know of. So eventually, as I got through the normal circle of people I reached out to I thought, well, I'm going to reach out to the next level, and reached out to Andy. And he responded, of all the different people that I reached out to, which is interesting, because I even had like best friends from high school, that like, two years later, I went to go message and I saw my last note to them was like asking them, you know, if they knew any opportunities, I was like, wow, they like totally, they've already been answered that Andy did. So I wanted to start by asking you, Andy, what were you thinking when you saw that? We're not talking about mentors to that.

Andrew Shockney:

I appreciate that. And I guess it should be known. I'm out now, too. I'm an enormous nerd. This is also true. I'll completely own it. And I love it. So yeah, always have been and, you know, the you guys who can see me online right now. It's just which books Am I reading? Right? These are my business management, and marketing books or entrepreneurship books, I have a whole nother set of books down in the dungeons downstairs. So yeah, no, that's all good. You know, I went through the same thing to Greg in 2002, when I exited the bank, right, and so had the wonderful blessing of going through a great process. That's a step by step approach to understanding how important it is to build a network. And in that process, learn be incredibly eye opening exercise. And this was not what I was taught in college, which was to find all the companies in the world that you might work for, and mail them all your resume with a cover letter, and then see who responds, I thought, That's how people got jobs. It is not that over 70% of jobs come from somebody you know, or somebody they know. It is about identifying, building and nurturing a powerful and important network. And growing that network in meaningful ways by doing people favors helping people throughout life as they ask, because someday you'll reach back out to them and say, Hey, I might need a hand with something. And you want to get a great response. That's absolutely it. And it was like a VA moment. So yeah, have worked very hard on building a network. In the 31. Business. We were a networking business, direct sales business, and they had a famous phrase back then, which is that your network is your net worth. Right, that it was literally who you know, and being very intentional and purposeful, about nurturing, and just giving first doing favors always reaching out when people ask, and isn't that what you'd want? Right. I mean, it's an absolutely golden rule.

Greg Hamlin:

Absolutely. And, you know, I think that was, what really struck me in that moment is, so you reached out right away. And when I had sent that out, I think, you know, we talked on the phone, if I'm remembering right, they maybe a week or so or a few days after and message you and you said, Look, I'll help as much as you need. If you want to, if you want to talk every week, we can talk every week, if you want help reviewing your resume, I'm happy to do that. If you want to meet a point into some directions of some books or some different ideas to push you. I'm happy to do that, too. And it was just the openness and willingness to help in any way that you could that really stood out to me. And it's something that I've been thinking about and why I wanted to do this episode today on mentor ships is I think it's sort of something that gets forgotten about and it's really, really important. And I think there's probably the two sides, there's finding a mentor, so we could talk about that today. And then maybe also the other half is how do you be a mentor or when should you? So you know, you talk a little bit about this, but I'll let Natalie jump in with a few questions too. So go ahead, Natalie.

Natalie Dangles:

Yes. And I think you know, that's one of the important things that I've always tried to tell people is never pass up an opportunity to meet someone, because you never know they could be working with you. You could eventually be working for them. It's always good to just never pass up that opportunity. You know, when you have an opportunity to meet someone meet them. I think like you got to meet through dungeons and dragons. I mean, it's just, you know, the oddest things happen. That bring you know people in your life. I don't believe there's accidents that way. Would you agree with that?

Andrew Shockney:

Oh, 100% Yeah, no, I It's, it reminds me to have that immature. I've got 16 year old and a 20 year old child right and that immature going up through school and that cliquishness If I don't want to have lunch, and I don't, I don't want to go you know, they invited me but I think so and so is going to be there and all these things that we all went through that we learned probably the wrong ways and because we wanted to fit in or we wanted to be cool, and so much more especially once you get out into the work life and you kind of realize how little any of that social status matters and how much we're all in this together. We can only help each other right? There's 7 billion people in The world, I'm only going to know a few 1000 people, if I'm lucky, every single one of them can play a role. And it doesn't matter what they do, where they're from, how they do it, it's kind of almost my duty to find that connection with the people that are in my life and find an opportunity in a way that I can help them. And if I have the blessing someday to get to work with them in a way, or in a capacity that they can also give back all the better.

Natalie Dangles:

Would you think that the social media networking is more effective? or in person networking? Just from your experience?

Andrew Shockney:

Yeah, no, that's really, that's really great. You're dating me a little bit with that question. Or the time that there were social networks, and that was, that was, that was, it was a very nice addition, I'll say to the network, I love for example, today, that I can keep in touch with the people at companies I used to work with much easier, and see how things are going and stay in touch a little bit a little more accessible, both of them and vice versa. To me, I love that bike, my friends from college and high school who I stay in touch with, right that I can see their kids graduations pictures, or their kids getting married pictures now, stuff like that, that's, that's really kind of magical, that I definitely would not have had access to otherwise. But that is not networking that's keeping up with right, like, that's the of our old like Christmas letters, if you ever did those again. Right? Yeah. You know, it's like the, here's everything that happened in the year, and I'm not gonna make it more than three paragraphs. So you know, don't don't it's don't be too offended here, right. And it was delightful to get those and read through them. And this is kind of like the replacement to that. And, and there are some channels and groups that you can join, where you can go a little deeper, and do it with intention, but they need to be very well curated. Those need to be a little more guarded, a little more intentional about who we invite, and what our topics are, and how do we make good use of that time, just like anything that we do with our time, I think it's all about in person always has been and still is today, I just got back from lunch with one of my friends of 35 years. And we're still very intentional and purposeful about being in touch, not all the time, once, maybe twice a year to just keep up with each other.

Greg Hamlin:

I love the point you make about it being intentional, because I think that's I think the part that sometimes we miss, I think about my career were with the company I started with after college. And they spent a lot of money in that and training us and that they flew us all to corporate, we spent two weeks in a hotel meeting every day to train, I think there were probably 30 people in my class that were being trained at the same time. And then we went back to our operating units in the different locations throughout the country that we were I think there was only one in my office that was there with me. And everybody else was from anywhere from Seattle to New York to Texas. And it was interesting within about two years, I think there were four of us left. And I think by the time I took a promotion that Cincinnati, there was only me left. And I'm no longer with that company. And I look back at that. And I think, wow, they spent so many resources to recruit me find me train me. And I think the the part that maybe I missed out on or that didn't happen is I didn't really feel like I had somebody that was mentoring me. And I didn't actually see where I was going to be in five years, in 10 years in 15 years. And I don't know if that's what's happened to the others, because I haven't kept up with them. But I'm just curious on that. Andy, why don't we see more effective company mentoring programs?

Andrew Shockney:

Well its an interesting thing, if you I mean, okay, let me put my academic hat on for a second, for a minute who studies these things and in the business and management space, right? If you think back to how businesses and we're talking business strategy here really did things as an industrial age, right? So from the 20s, to the 60s, right, there was an enormous amount of investment in the training of people right and that was a given right we you hired people, you didn't hire skill sets, and you trained all the skill sets you needed because that's what drove your economic engine. Well, thank you, Mr. Drucker for introducing us all to the information age, right and along with these white white collar workers, and so now the majority of our people in in jobs today and US economies and first world economies, our information age, folks and businesses have cut way back on that training that development and its intention and, and quite frankly, we've also seen this undercurrent especially in the 80s with this a very high emphasis on kind of how are we doing this? quarter, what is our? How do we make sure that every dollar we're investing is is directly returning a value, right? That mentorship that personal development is a long term play? Right? It's a long term investment to see that payback. And so I think business is the meta environment of businesses is not to build and support that. And I don't know that that's entirely wrong strategically, it just kind of is, it's where we are right now. But I think it's what's important is that we acknowledge that and take that ownership and find those needs, right, that's one of the great things about an entrepreneurial capitalist economy like we're in is those needs will be met and fulfilled, I'll say for myself, right, that part of my move into entrepreneurship could not have even remotely been possible without incredible mentors and without incredible people along the journey to help support me in the in that direction. And I'll say I even am a part of and support not only through my teaching at Ohio State and want to be a mentor to those students, I also a part of the rotary Columbus rotary here in Columbus, Ohio. And to me, that is an organization that fills that need and that gap that is absolutely people with this experience reaching out through endowments and scholarship programs and mentoring programs that we lead, I'm one of the CO leads of the veterans mentoring program, where we partner with Ohio State University, and we mentor veteran veterans who are attending Ohio State. So there are opportunities out there to kind of help fill those needs. But I think there's an ownership right now on all of us to help identify and close those gaps. There are certainly a full bell curve. So some big companies that are seeing that, and jumping in to fill that role based on that absence to differentiate themselves.

Natalie Dangles:

Now, if you don't mind me asking, How did you find your mentors? When you were because you said you had great mentors?

Andrew Shockney:

Yeah, I've you know, proximity is can write that in person, of course, right, I can go through a litany of going back to my parents, and to my close family, friends, you know, folks that were with us at the wedding. And along those lines, right, and just incredibly blessed in those in those capacities. And then all the way up to the people who were my first boss, my first supervisor at the bank, and the first manager at the bank, and the first director at the bank, who saw the potential in me and challenged me to go get my MBA and gave me incredible opportunity after an incredible opportunity that I tried to just crushed, because, you know, they were giving me these opportunities that nobody else, I looked at my left and my right, and nobody else was getting those. But when she gives me, you know, however many$100,000 to invest in trying to build something and we deliver more than 10x back, I'm gonna get the next opportunity. So you know, it was things like that, and the journey. And then what I'll say is 2002 happened, right. And I went this second Aha. And then it became very intentional about what is the old adage, they say that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with, then I have a long list of people that I connect with, and write the LinkedIn list that's out there, but who I'm intentional about who I spend time with. And I'm intentional about setting up and reinvesting annually, quarterly, monthly, even weekly to make sure that I'm investing in those mentor relationships and making space for the people who I mentor as well.

Greg Hamlin:

I love what you said about you know, you're the combination of the five people you spend the most time with, I know when I moved to Ohio, this is kind of a funny story. But everybody on my team was really into working out which not into at all. Yeah, and I need to lose some weight here. Like I'm feeling like I'm feeling a little heavy. And it's just amazing. Like you don't even enter it. And I did actually end up losing like 40 pounds, but part of it was I just spend time or at least people and I think we don't always realize we sort of by osmosis pick up the good habits and the bad habits. So I love how you said the intentional being careful who we spend our time with because we do end up kind of taking on some of those characteristics over time. I wanted to ask you the question, and I think you've talked about this a little but what makes someone a good mentee, I don't even know if that's a word. It sounds like something you'd have for a breath of breath freshener. But what would make somebody a good learner or someone who can actually be take in and take in some of that information and develop?

Andrew Shockney:

Yeah, no, that's great question, Greg. So two things that I'm always I'm always energized by one is an unbridled passion or enthusiasm, right? And all the things that go with that that engagement, that willingness to go the extra Wow, that willingness to reschedule to make it work that that willingness to put in the time to drive some impact from it, right, like that unbridled enthusiasm is just it's, it's rare and it's just incredibly valuable. And I'm in it, it always sets me up to know that this is probably going to be really exciting, we'll have stories to tell, it may not go the way we thought, but we're gonna have some stories to tell afterwards is done. And, and the other one is really just tremendous potential. I was just talking to another client earlier today about how this new 24 year old just joining the company, also a gamer, and right all the potential in the world, right? And that's really so powerful, that if they've got the right attitude, the right intellect, the right capability to learn so much in the information age, we all have access to information to resources to abilities, the question is, what can you do with it right? And are you willing to constantly put in the time and energy it's going to take to get better at this thing that is adding value and then understand why you're doing it and how it fits in the organization or the relationship or whatever you're you're trying to help improve?

Natalie Dangles:

That's great. And it is true. I mean, when you're around positive people, there's something about that, have you ever just been around a positive person, and it just makes you smile the rest of the day, and it just, but same with negative if you've ever had someone negative, you feel drained. So I could see where that would be very important. You know, that attitude is everything. It really is, I mean, I think you can teach skill sets. But when you have someone who's just so positive, you know, I think you can do a lot with that.

Andrew Shockney:

That's what that's what it can do. That's so great as a mentee. That's exactly right. And it makes me feel excited about what's going to happen. I'll say too, though, let me flip that for a second to the mentors side, that often when when we engage folks, and Greg, our relationship was like this, when you engage with me, part of that journey for us as mentors is helping people back to that place. I've gone through this exercise with more than a few people that, uh, when we're engaging, it's not the highest point in their career and life and they're right. And so it is it is a tough, and that's an important and key thing in the empathy that we can do in ED mentoring is acknowledging people where they are right. It's, I'm excited by potential, I'm excited by enthusiasm, and that talent, that capability that adds it's going to take them a long way. But part of our role as a mentor, is to help them level that right. It's also it's not as low as the low seems when we're talking to them right when they've got the real need. But it's also not as high as the high seems, when he got your first offer wouldn't hand and you think that oh, my gosh, this is it. It's all over. And Greg knows this from station, that's usually where the work really begins.

Greg Hamlin:

It is and you know, something I really think it's important for our listeners to to understand is when you are being mentored, being open to feedback and listening to that feedback and being willing to try different things. So, for example, you know, I had spent a lot of time on my resume before I you know, of course, I'm in a senior vice president role now. So the end of the story is good. Oh, the story continues. But one of the things that when I spent all this time on the resume, I'd sent it to end and he looked at it, and we and he said, well just tell me like, tell me about your biggest accomplishments. And so we started talking about all the things that I done. That was exciting. My former employer, none of these new ideas we've done in big goals, we achieved these any let you listen. And then he said, You know, I don't see any of this on here. Why is that? Not the first thing I see when I look at your resume is the amazing things you've accomplished? I don't know. And so, you know, we ended up going back to the drawing board and kind of rethinking how that looked. And I think it takes some willingness to be able to hear somebody else's constructive feedback. That might not be everything you did is perfect. You know, have you thought about presenting it this way? Or have you thought about looking at it this way? So I think, you know, when when we're in the either role, but especially when we're being mentored. I think being open, be open to feedback is really important. What are your thoughts on that Andy?

Andrew Shockney:

yeah, right. Right. If if you're asking me in a resume writing class degrade your resume would have been an A Right? I mean, you've checked that box, you did all the things. It's all in order, right? Of course, if you're asking me like a mentor, how do I get my next job? I hold up a piece of paper and say, This is a 32nd introduction to you. Before I have the interview. That's going to matter. Tell me your story. Yeah. Give me the thing that I want to ask you a question about right. Totally different mentoring versus tactical what you need and that's that, that's to me, the magic of a good mentoring relationship is having someone who's been in there, they know how to sometimes we call it see around the corners. Right? Right. I've been on the receiving side of doing all that hiring right? And I'm sure you are to Greg. But at seat at that time, we don't have that proximity, right? That it's like, yeah, this is the thing I literally grabbed out of a stack of 10 in a row, I'm going back to back to back. And I'm trying in a scan to get my what are my two or three questions that I'm going to add as flavor to my standard review that I'm going to do with this great candidate?

Greg Hamlin:

Yeah, I just think it's so important. And the other the other piece of that, and that's this is something that we did during that time was check ins, regular check ins, and I've been on the other side of that we're mentoring somebody, why do you feel like those are important? As far as you know, having having touch points when you're working with somebody,

Andrew Shockney:

when you look at communication and and how good communication works over a long period of time. The thing that a lot of people overlook is that frequency of communication, we're talking about proximity, we're talking about networking and being in person, frequency of communication actually ranks higher than anything else. And that is often missed, right? So we, you know, frustrated as it is, oh, we got to do our one on ones and our touch bases. And I feel like I'm over scheduled. No, that's there for a reason. It's because we've proven that works. That is now you've got to be intentional about using that time effectively. Right? What if you have that plan that agenda, that frequency of communication is essential to effective communication?

Greg Hamlin:

I couldn't agree more. I think that's huge. Natalie, what are your thoughts?

Natalie Dangles:

My thoughts on this is no, it is true, because you're constantly reinforcing what you're going over. And I think that when you're constantly speaking with someone, you get very comfortable and you build that trust. I know, with my team, we have daily check ins because I want them to get in the habit of reaching out to me instead of you know, it'd be a lot different. Probably awkward if it was once a month. I have no I completely agree with that.

Greg Hamlin:

Natalie, one thing I'd add to what you just said is most of your team actually none of your team members are actually physically in Las Vegas. Yeah, that's another thing is Natalie's not going to run into her team at the watercooler. And so if without some of those intentional checkpoints, you know, it's hard to build relationships. Very true.

Unknown:

Intentional, being intentional and having that time that regular feedback. I love your comment about the habits, Natalie. the it's the it's the routines that become the habits that is that that closest five people average, right? It's the thing sometimes we don't even realize that we're absorbing their language, their attitude, their right. It's, it's how we shape opinions, and beliefs together over time that helps us be able to grow together and accomplish more together. Oh, I

Natalie Dangles:

really like that.

Greg Hamlin:

I agree. You know, and I think the other piece of that, so the check ins are important. But I think the other really important part of that is listening. And I remember a time in my career. This is then probably eight years ago. And I've always felt like I'm a pretty good listener. And I had a 360 review where your peers review you your direct reports review you your boss reviews, you and you get all this feedback that's, you know, aggregated and scrubbed a little bit. So you don't know exactly where it all came from. But one of the things I saw in there was like, why don't feel like he's he listens to? And I thought, wow, how can that be? And so it was a really introspective moment for me, because what I realized is that I was so busy doing so many different things. And I was hearing what people were saying, but they didn't feel like I was hearing what they were saying. Because I was doing things whether that was rushing from thing to thing to thing or looking at my phone, having my laptop open, like I had not yet learned to pause and to shut some of those things down and really listen. And so, you know, if you could talk a little bit like when it comes to being a mentor or being mentored, how do you feel listening fits into that?

Unknown:

Wow, I mean, you mentioned earlier, Greg, it's certainly mission critical as a mentee, right? I mean, that's if this is really going to work, if we're going to add any value, right? That I'm going to, you're going to come to me with a problem or challenge or an opportunity. And I want to try and pull back ideally from my experiences and try and help say this is what I've done in a similar situation. Here's people I could put you in contact with, who might also have experiences and if it's got to be how do we find ways together to take my story to relate it to your situation? And it's it's really, I mean, not even right in that interaction. The story is a third of the conversation right? It's a third of it is just here's the story where I've had that that framing. So here's the third on how do we make that apply to your problem? Opportunity? Challenge? And then and then what are we doing? Right? What What's your action plan and ultimately, it's your full listening your full engagement in that and and for me as a good mentor in the empathy comes in, that I'm hearing that last part so that I can help hold you accountable to that, that when we check in, because we just talked about frequency and how important that check in is that I know what to ask about. Did you get that list built? You are going to contact those three people? How'd you do? Oh, it's Greg, you didn't contact three you contacted 30? Got it? This is gonna go back check.

Greg Hamlin:

I'm a little intense.

Natalie Dangles:

Do you think it's important to that when you're mentoring someone to see how your mentee learns, because everyone's learning style is different. So do you think that that is another factor in seeing how they, you know, obtain the information because everybody, you know, learns in a different way.

Andrew Shockney:

I'm a huge fan of learning styles, communication styles, and Strength Finders. So every time that I've been a leader with the department as a department head, I've made that a requirement for all of my direct reports. In one of the departments I did, in the customer experience in the operations center, I had everybody in leadership. So you know, 25, or 30, people all go through Strength Finders and five, five love languages and disk we used for our different communication assessments. They're effective, right? They're not perfect tools. But effective. I love how all in all cases, they help you pay attention to and be intentional about the empathy of there's no right or wrong way. And just because someone communicates or learns different than me, that doesn't make it mine the right way. And there's the wrong way. And it's, and then secondarily, it builds a set a common set of language for us to use as a team to say, Oh, that's right, this is how you learn, that's different than Wait, let's, let's reset that. Because what's more important is not that I said it, once, it's that we've all taken the action or the step or the learning that we were looking for, at this stage in our journey together. So yeah, hugely important. And, and a part of that, and when I have a executive mentoring that I do as part of my consulting business, and that's, that's also a standard part. And I go beyond those, and also into beliefs and values, because I also want to understand, for the people who are executives that I'm mentoring, I want to understand where their beliefs and value systems are coming from. So they can tap into that for their leadership style as well.

Greg Hamlin:

That's great. And I, you know, we use some of those same tools in our company. And I think understanding how different people learn and process information and communicate, really helps because sometimes some of the bigger problems are really just lack of understanding of people and not understanding where they've come from, and why they're, why they're doing what they're doing. And then, I mean, I use the example all the time, my former boss, who's now our chairman, we had done the DISC assessment, and he is a C. So for people who don't know what that means is he likes all the facts, he likes all the information, he likes to have time to process that information before he makes a decision. I am an I A strong ID, which means I get excited about ideas, and I want to get results. So those two things are huge. So I could have this great, huge idea. And I know that if I showed up in his office, so excited about this idea, and ready to make decisions and move on that was not going to work. And I learned, you know, what I needed to do is I would spell out all the reasons why this was a good idea and and the way we would go about implementing it, then I would send it to him and say, We're not going to meet for three days on this because I want to give you time to read through it all. And if you have questions before we meet, let me know. And I can give you more information. And once I learned that he would literally say you know me, so Well, Greg, this is this is going to make our meeting go so well. And so it's just taking that time to understand how we learn how we communicate, makes a big difference. One of the things you talked a little bit about Andy was goal setting. And that, you know, when we talked usually there were a few takeaways when we were on the phone about, you know, before we talked again, you know, if you could talk to three people each day, or if you could look at you know, there was a book, look into this book, you know, and let me know what your thoughts are as you're reading it. So we have different things that we would talk about. So there was some direction to the time that we spent together. Because obviously your your time is valuable. And for those who are mentoring, their time is valuable for people who might be listening. So we're where's the importance of goal setting and problem solving in a mentor mentee relationship?

Andrew Shockney:

So goal setting rate is is proven to work right if you're if you're old like me All the way back to the old Franklin planner, and time management, you had to write down every day that you're going to do today. You can, what are your big rocks that need to get done this month or quarter, right? And traction leverages all this, this kind of line of thinking it's there. And it's out in the in the metal sphere, because it works. It's proven if the goal gets written down, it's multiple times more likely to occur or to happen. So understanding that it is that intention, we keep talking about understanding what it is we're really there to try to do, what we're trying to get accomplished. And then being able, like our Franklin planners taught us back in the 90s. To break those goals down into the manageable bite sized chunks. What do I need to get done this week? And then What day do I think I'm blocking or time to do it? Because that's really at the end of the day, what it all boils down to is we all only have 24 hours in the day. So it's how do we use that time to get the biggest, most important things accomplished. And so the goal setting allows us to be intentional, it allows us to work with purpose, right? And that, by the way, that doesn't mean we don't still play games, it doesn't mean Oh, enjoy each other's company or go to lunch with a friend from 35 years. Right? We that is also part of our purpose and part of our goals. But it is about creating the space and being able to do it in a way that I think is manageable, right to make it palatable and not. I don't know about you guys, but I've been. And I've been around people who feel like they're constantly overwhelmed, overworked, working too late again tonight and working this weekend. I've got all these things, right. There's times for that in our lives. There's seasons for that, when it it warrants it and deserves it. But at the end of the day, we set our agendas. We set our attention intentions, we control how we're going to choose to spend our time. And so pulling it back to that mentor mentee relationship. Greg, I think it boils down to us kind of coming to an agreement, not unlike how we do on our touch bases on our one on ones with our teams. What are we working on right now? What's our big rock right this quarter? And what do we need to do before the next time we meet in the next two weeks to make sure we've got some traction on that?

Greg Hamlin:

Right, that's great.

Natalie Dangles:

And back to that with the you know, with the time organization, because there are times that you are working a lot and you have to work, you know, to get it done. You have to work on evenings or weekends. But I remember early when I had first started in insurance, someone had told me when you have these big tasks, and when you accomplish them and you finally get through that, do something small it can be something small, but reward yourself. If it means going to a movie with a friend, or you know meeting for Starbucks with them, you know a coffee, but you know reward yourself. Give yourself a little treat to get you know afterwards. Don't overwhelm yourself by trying to make time with friends, when you're in the middle of a big project. Do it right after have like a celebration. And that's how you can plan it and get through it.

Andrew Shockney:

There's a great book written by a guy named James clear called atomic habits. It's been one of the top selling business books. Recently James is from Columbus, Ohio, Dublin. And I got to see him speak the other night at the bookstore in Bexley terrific. And he talks about exactly this, right, we talked about how our routines become our habits becomes our success. And that's, that's what that boils down to. And he talks about the the Cheat Codes more or less the hacks the life that allow us to get more done that allow effective people to get more things done and that reward that reward system. Absolutely a part of that. And it's a great, it's a great read For other great tips of how do we become more effective with the time that we do have and have healthier, more impactful habits.

Greg Hamlin:

Great points. So Andy, if I'm if I'm a leader in a company listening to this right now, and I'm thinking okay, I for sure could need some more mentoring going on in my company? What could I do? Or what would be some steps to either foster that whether that's a program or whether that's just fostering a culture where that's organic? What could I do if I'm listening to this today as a takeaway to maybe take the next steps to have more of that going on in my my work environment?

Andrew Shockney:

That Let me answer in three levels, okay. So on the first and most basic level is leaning towards action, we can do something we can do anything. What's one thing we could do before the next week and that is even identify someone as a potential mentor, set up a meeting or identify someone as a potential mandate and set up a potential meeting right immediately do something something is better than nothing, always. Secondly, as a corporate organization, right in our financial services backgrounds, what I would say is I have seen terrific success with what we've we've Set up in the past that we called Career pathing. So it is understanding where people start in our in our careers at our organization, and understanding what are some example paths that we've seen people take up into leadership up into quality up into administration and office back office support out into the field? Right? What were those paths that they took? And then how do we help equip them ahead of that path? How do we, what were the things that they were able to navigate and find on their own? And how can we help be intentional about putting more opportunities like that in front of people with those high potential for opportunities, right, so it's, it's pathing. So we're working on defining through our career advancement programs in our annual review programs, who the people are with high potential, and we're working to create probably things that are already there, but we're just being intentional about setting up the past the books, the classes, the programs. And then and and then the kind of the tail end of that, of course, is those folks that we identify that went on those paths would be great mentors, right? They can, they've been around the block, and they can see it, things that those folks who are just starting out wouldn't have. And so connect, connecting them from that initial diagnosis to being a part of that partnership. Working together is tremendously powerful. I've seen that work in multiple organizations, the third tier and the one that I engage with, which is where my executive mentoring comes in is, I think it's really valuable for the top level leaders and organizations to have objective third party mentors of by design who have no agenda, right. So if you're in that executive level, or entrepreneurial business ownership role, it is everybody in your organization's got an agenda. That's not a bad thing, that's a great thing. That agenda is about promoting their business and their welfare and their success. But understanding that is incredibly valuable to have mentors. And even so you can use folks like me, who are third party consultants or put together advisory boards, right? So you could have multiple skill sets from legal to accounting, to business to marketing, what what are the needs of your business, put together that advisory board, it's a great place to start. So that you've got a regular, consistent frequency feedback loop that you're getting great. Third party been there before solutions and ideas.

Greg Hamlin:

I think that's, that's a real, those are some really great steps. And, you know, I like what you said about identifying those people who have that upward mobility and giving them those opportunities. Now, I'm embarrassed Natalie for a minute, but she was our she was our senior adjuster for a while. And I know she wanted to be a manager. And so we at HR had said to me, you know, we've got our new our new manager training going on in the company. And I said, Well, I have somebody who's not a manager, and we don't have an opportunity for a manager. But is it okay, if I send her anyway, because I think this would be great for her. And so being open to those ideas. And then later, when those opportunities present themselves, those people are better prepared and already bent. That's right. So sometimes those things come across our path. And if we we think about it for a minute, there might be somebody else who can benefit that may not be immediately the person you would think needs to go to that class or that journey. So I like what you said.

Natalie Dangles:

And I'm always glad that I got to get I'm very grateful, because I really think that it did help with a lot of the preparation, you know, that came when the opportunity came, you know, you have that preparation. So I was very grateful for that.

Unknown:

Well, let me let me flip the script a little bit to and we're talking a lot right now about DEI opportunities, right, and we don't have enough persons of color in leadership positions, and have enough in position leadership positions. It just doubles down the need and the the opportunity, the investment for us to make to create those opportunities, right, because not everybody has those mentors, because not everybody has that career path. How can we be intentional about setting more people up for success, and help us achieve not only another level of great management and other level of great advancement in our careers, but also ones that achieve our diversity, equity and inclusion objectives?

Greg Hamlin:

I think you are spot on and the financial sector is one of those sectors that has some work to do.Great points. Well, one of the things that I wanted to touch on that I think I wanted to just to get out there, there may be somebody listening who's thinking, Well, I really want a mentor. I don't have a mentor, how do I find one? And I guess the one thing I would say and then I'm interested in both of your takes on this is sometimes it's just asking, you know, like when I ran into Andy, okay, at that point, I was reaching out to everybody, because I thought you know what, and you know, when you lose your job, that's embarrassing. Even if it's not your fault. It's not like You're the favorite time you want to touch bases in the theater, right? But even if you're not in that position, and you're in a different position, it's sometimes scary to reach out to people and say, Hey, like, I really would love to learn from you, would you be willing to teach me? Or would you willing to be some spend some time with me. But I think that that's probably the first step is just having the courage to reach out to people and get outside your comfort zone. And don't be afraid if you see somebody you're really impressed with, or you see somebody you think you could learn from or who can help you. Just ask them. I know, for me, I don't like to ask for help. So that's hard for me, because I'm very independent. And I like to do things. And I like to feel like I'm in control. And I don't need any help. We all need help. And so opening ourselves up and asking, I think, maybe it would be my advice. Any, what's your advice on finding a mentor?

Andrew Shockney:

I'm a big fan of Silicon Valley, mentor guy named Jerry Kelowna. And he's got a phrase, give first, right? So always try to give first and this is true for mentors and mentees. Great. So if you're reaching out, reach out in a way to meaningfully help somebody, right, people who are your potential mentors need help, too. And there's lots of ways that you can help them or up to an including reaching out and asking how you could help. I'll say, with regards to your and my connection, Greg, you didn't just reach out and it wasn't an act of desperation, you had a specific problem you were trying to solve and looking for feedback, like the more specific you can get, the more likely I'm going to be able to lean in and help out or self diagnose and say, that is a real problem or a real opportunity. I'm not your guide. But let me see if I can put you into contact with someone who could help you. Right? The toughest ask that I get is, hey, I think I would like to have you as a mentor.

Greg Hamlin:

What does that mean?

Andrew Shockney:

Where are we starting? Is it because of because of its Fridays? Is it a Friday thing?

Greg Hamlin:

What's the that's a great point, being specific is important. And, you know, knowing what you're asking for really helps. And I think that would be another great takeaway. And I love how you said giving, giving is important. And I think that's the other thing is, if you want somebody, now, I've learned this just as a life lesson, if you want somebody to help you help lots of people, and it just comes back around. I don't know why that is. It's just one of those things that when you do good, and you help other people, eventually it comes back around. So I love how you said that is just be giving. Because if you're willing to reach out and help others that help will come to when you need it. And one of the things I wanted to finish this season with last season, I had everybody share their happiest moment, I feel like there's a lot of negativity in the world in general, whether that's politically divided people, or the COVID, or COVID, or the economy, there's just a lot of things that bring people down. So this season, what I wanted to do is have each person share, what is your favorite part of what you do each day? Like what what's what's what gets you excited about what you do every day. So Andy, I wanted to throw that to you. And we can put some good vibes out in the universe.

Andrew Shockney:

Oh, good. So the thing that I wake up early for I wake up every day, no alarm clock and have for several years, pretty much since I've been consulting and I feel very blessed to get to do this, the teaching and consulting. And the thing that gets me up is to know I'm going to be in front of a room or in front of a microphone and have an opportunity to have an audience and have an impact. And I get so excited about I just wake up no alarm. And my mind is immediately racing. I'm already there. It's like I'm half dreaming and half awake. And then it's like dreaming when I'm out there and getting to share my story or share things in a classroom or facilitate a great strategic planning retreat or an initiatives workshop, right? It is just a real blessing. That's what what gets me so excited. And then the thing that I know that fills my cup, because that's an enormous drain of energy. It takes an enormous amount of that fills my cup is this all this nerdy reading that I get to do right? Fill that cup back up and reading the Wall Street Journal every day. And I read from books every day and I read about 20 or 30 magazines, I love the opportunity to read and learn and bring that in and make it a part of what I get to share with folks with classrooms and with the folks that I have the pleasure to advise.

Greg Hamlin:

I absolutely love that. Absolutely. That I think hearing people's passions is always exciting. And I know that you're doing a lot of good. I wanted to just for sure thank you Andy I you know, I appreciate all the help that you gave me personally and consider you a friend but also appreciate you taking the time to share some of your thoughts on this. I think mentors and mentorships are so important and I hope some people Listen to this and got a few ideas that they can take away. I always say when I read a book or we're listening to the podcast, I'm always looking for that one or two things that I can take away and try to try to implement. So hopefully we have a couple of those today for people and just want to remind people of our motto to do write, think differently, and don't forget to care. And that's it for this episode of adjusted. We hope you'll follow us in future episodes that release every two weeks. And of course, if you want to catch our blog on the off meets Natalie dangles provides that for us. So thanks again, and we'll catch you next time.