In this episode, ADJUSTED welcomes Brad Cantwell, CEO of Arcadia Settlements Group. Brad explains structured settlements and share his thoughts on how they can be used for better claim outcomes.
Season 3 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp. This episode is hosted by Greg Hamlin and guest co-host Mike Gilmartin, Area Vice President, Sales & Distribution, for Key Risk.
Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkindcomp.com
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com
In this episode, ADJUSTED welcomes Brad Cantwell, CEO of Arcadia Settlements Group. Brad explains structured settlements and share his thoughts on how they can be used for better claim outcomes.
Season 3 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp. This episode is hosted by Greg Hamlin and guest co-host Mike Gilmartin, Area Vice President, Sales & Distribution, for Key Risk.
Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkindcomp.com
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com
Hello, everybody and welcome to adjusted. I'm your host Greg Hamlin coming at you from beautiful Sweet Home Alabama, and Berkeley Industrial Comp. And with me is my co-host for today. Mike Gilmartin. Mike, I'll let you introduce yourself.
Michael Gilmartin:Yeah, excited to be back, Michael Gilmartin with key risk out of Greensboro, North Carolina. And it's a little too cold for my liking right now. Greg. It's like 40 degrees, and it's not cool.
Greg Hamlin:So, yeah, it was 40 in Alabama when I woke up this morning. I'm like, What is this? This is, this is why I moved down here. I grew up in Michigan and Indiana. So, I'm not I'm not for the cold weather anymore. I've gotten soft.
Michael Gilmartin:Agreed.
Greg Hamlin:Well, with us today as our special guest, Brad Cantwell. He is the CEO of Arcadia settlement groups. And we're glad to have Brad with us today. Brad, if you want to say hi to everybody.
Brad Cantwell:Thank you, Greg. And, Mike, it's good to talk to you today. I'm in Los Angeles where it's 60 degrees, people are probably starting to grumble about 70
Michael Gilmartin:Are people people all in winter gear when it's 60 degrees in California?
Brad Cantwell:Yeah, they've got puffy coats out.
Greg Hamlin:It's really funny here too. And I see people like loaded up with like scarves and hats and mittens and stuff. And it's like, you know, 50 haven't grown up in Michigan.
brad cantwell:So I spent most of my career in Chicago, Greg. And if on April 19, it was 60 degrees. Everyone would be in bathing suits.
Greg Hamlin:Oh, yeah. For sure. When I was at what I was at Indiana University, if it was that warm, everybody was throwing frisbees and acting like they should be on the beach. So it's pretty funny. Our president of our company, spent two winters in Chicago and that's how he said he measured his time in Chicago was by how many winters? He stayed and then came back to Birmingham was like that. So no, I think Mike was in Chicago too, for a little bit, right.
Michael Gilmartin:Four years. Yeah. And you do measure by winters, I decided to move to Chicago in the in the month of January, which nobody should ever do. Like it was a terrible
Greg Hamlin:Well, I'm excited to have you with us, Brad. idea. Today, we're going to tackle the topic of structured settlements. And so for some people listening, this may be new for others, it may be something they already understand. But you know, full, full transparency. My degree was in criminal justice, I didn't have a financial background. So this was definitely all new to me coming into the insurance industry and understanding how it works. Before we get into all the nuts and bolts of that, though, Brad, would love for you to tell us a little bit about how you ended up in this industry?
Brad Cantwell:That's a good question. The truth is, whether it was criminal justice or some other field, I find that when you're involved in the settlement of claims, on your side, or on the structured settlement side, you can come from a variety of backgrounds. While it does certainly help to understand finance and law, to some extent, really understanding and caring about people is the most important thing. I actually came into the business sort of from a side entrance to I had been working in the hotel business. And one night when I was at a restaurant manager in the hotel late in the evening, one of the last tables to leave was a group of insurance professionals. And they started talking to me about my job. And it was probably one of those days when I started work at 430 in the morning was about 1:30 am. So I was willing to say I'd be open to something different. But they asked what was my favorite part of working in the hotel business. And I said, strangely enough, one of the things I liked the most was being involved in labor negotiations, which we were I was in Chicago. It was a city that was home to the company, I worked for big visitor city, lots of hotels, and a big Union City, but sort of changing dynamics. And I found that discussing how you could sort of bridge the gap between companies needs, individuals needs, employment needs all these things, and you could do it creatively was a really interesting, challenging part. And then they told me about part of their business. And I'd never known much about insurance, frankly, that had to do with resolving conflicts, resolving claims, using something called structured settlements where future payments were made to meet real needs and could result in sort of mutual benefit for both sides in a negotiation, and my interest was piqued. About six months later, I found myself in an entry level position in this business.
Greg Hamlin:That's awesome. You know, it's it's interesting how everybody ends up in this industry because there's very few that like when they were young knew this is where they were going to go. And interesting to see how what you were doing in the hotel industry brought you into the structured settlement field. So tell us a little bit about your company Arcadia settlement group. What do you guys do?
Brad Cantwell:Yeah, Arcadia settlements group is the first ever structured settlements company We were established in 1972. So this is our 50th anniversary year, we have now offices all over the United States. We also have a subsidiary in Canada that handles structured settlements throughout the provinces of Canada. It's not the exact same legal or tax system, but it's similar enough that structured settlements exist in Canada as well. We have an outpost in Puerto Rico, which though it's part of the United States, it has also somewhat different legal and tax treatment, and we're used to in the United States. So we have a couple of 100 settlement professionals who work all over the United States helping resolve claims small and large workers compensation claims, medical malpractice, product liability, general liability, and even non injury claims. People will often have employment disputes or there will be environmental claims with environmental cleanups, anything where there's a need, or use for money being paid over time to meet real needs, we can be useful.
Michael Gilmartin:Yeah, I didn't know. structured settlements have been around 50 years and maybe previous to that. So I think from from an adjuster standpoint, from a claim standpoint, you hear structured settlement. And I know, obviously, injured workers have a different reaction to it, maybe but I think of when I think of it, I think of Oh, my God, this must be a huge claim was a huge settlement. I don't really know how to do this. There's a lot of math involved. There's numbers, what, like boil down for everybody? What is a structured settlement?
Brad Cantwell:Sure. It's a great question. And and you're right, a lot of people do think about it is huge. It also depends on what your definition of huge is, right? If you're in claims, and you're used to seeing sometimes large claims, a million dollars seems huge. And you might think of structured settlements as being a million dollars, if you're the average person on the street $25,000 might seem like a huge sum. And the truth is, we do a lot more cases, we have a lot more cases that are close to $25,000, than a million dollars or more. So what is structured settlement is in its simplest form, is a settlement that combines immediate cash for today's needs. The needs of the person who's settling their claim today, what do they need today, they might have to pay their attorneys, they might have some medical bills outstanding that they have to pay back. They've been off work for some time, they might have other things, they might have personal loans, they might have run up some credit card bills, if they've been seriously injured, they might have home modifications that need to be done, or they may need some durable medical equipment. Those cash needs are something you give for today. But most needs in significant kinds of claims where somebody's been seriously injured or had their their ability to work impacted. A lot of their needs are in the future. They have future medical care, they have future lost wages, they may have family needs, that they can no longer easily accommodate whether it's their children's education, their own retirement,other things into the future. For all of those future needs. A structured settlement is meant to pay future payments in the future as the money is needed. And if it's done correctly, all of those future payments arrive on time and tax free. So basically, you're right, a lot of people wouldn't realize that structured settlements went all the way back 50 years, it's actually only 40 years, when there's been very clear tax advice about how the future payments are made. They were used early on to try to address cases where some judges and insurance professionals and lawyers saw, you know, we have people who get injured now, and especially young people whose needs may last long beyond the amount of money that is available to be paid today. And it's likely to be dissipated before they need it. What if we bought some sort of a product that paid on into the future and paid them when they would need the money and we'd make sure they didn't lose the money. The defendant or its insurer who is negotiating on the other side of the claim now has a useful tool to actually negotiate based on needs rather than just offering as sum of cash hoping that it will do what's necessary over a long period of time. So a structured settlement is basically a combination of media cash for today's needs, and future payments for future needs. Usually funded with a an annuity from a life insurance company. But it doesn't have to be, they can be self funded. You can use other financial instruments to produce payments over time. But there is an element where the payments have to be fixed, and determinable at certain dates on into the future. And if done correctly, all of those payments will flow to the individual who's been hurt, or their family and beneficiaries tax free.
Greg Hamlin:I think that explains it really well. You know, I think as human beings, we don't always do an excellent job of delayed gratification. I know, I'm not probably always the best at that. Like, I think everybody whether they've gotten a tax return or a bonus or something in their life, are like, wow, like, what could I get now? And I've seen that with their injured workers, and I don't fault them for that. I think that, you know, that's just human nature. To think about, wow, like I won the lottery, what do I do with it? It's really hard, though, to have the self discipline not to use it all. And I think one of the things I've seen in structured settlements is, they can have some of that upfront, like you were talking about to take care of the things they need to take care of. But then they have the benefit of that maybe going on 20-30 years, the rest of their life, depending on their situation, where they have a steady flow of income, and even have maybe payments released when big things happen in life like a kids going to college or something like that.
Brad Cantwell:You know, you're right, Greg, if you think about, just forget anybody having been injured. Imagine you had a company and a company had 100 employees. And if the paymaster at the company said on January 1, here's your paycheck for this year for all 100 of you, I hope you use it well throughout the year. And we'll see you on January 1 of next year for your next paycheck, how many people would still have what's necessary to get by by September, when some by May. And now imagine that you weren't being given a check for one years needs. But for 30 or 40 years, and you might have been injured, you might have physical limitations, you might have a limited ability to work. Now you're in a completely different boat. So you're right. It's not anything to be ashamed of that to admit that most people couldn't manage a big chunk of money for the rest of their lives. Almost nobody could do that even for a year, frankly.
Greg Hamlin:Yeah, yeah, no, I think you're spot on that they did a experiment. I can't remember when this was, but it was like with children and marshmallows. And they had like little kids, like maybe three or four years old. And they told them, they put them on a big marshmallow in front of them and said, you know, if you can sit here for three minutes, and not eat the marshmallow, I can't remember three or five minutes, it wasn't a long amount of time we' ll bring you two marshmallows. And it was amazing how few of the kids could sit and wait. And then they even did follow up studies through those kids lives to see how it impacted them. And it was interesting, you know what that study found? But I just, I think about that a lot. Because it's something you know, as a father with kids, I'm trying to think like, how do I teach my kids that. And what's nice about a structure is you're really protecting people from themselves in some ways, and giving them a bigger benefit really to because, you know, whatever we could have given them upfront is can be quite a bit more. Can you explain a little bit about how that works? Like if we had a and I know these aren't real numbers, but just to give the idea of how something could work if I had$50,000 settlement, and we knew that they had $20,000 worth of bills and things they got to pay. So we've got a structure of$30,000. What's the potential for that if it was gonna pay out over 20 years or something is there you know, as far as value goes, and then how would that come to the injured worker?
Brad Cantwell:Well, I can tell you that on average, the future payout is about this as an average. So it can vary widely, depending on the design. But on average, you usually see about a tripling of the money over time. So in your example, with $50,000 20,000 dollars for immediate cash needs and 30,000 dollar structure, you might see that the 30,000 grow to be $90,000, even if it grew to be only$35,000. But it was parceled at times that were particularly meaningful and was received tax free. That could be very useful. I can tell you there was one case that I handled early in my career and that I have a long career. So this is going back to when I started the business in Detroit. And there was a young man who was 25 years old who was injured on a motorcycle and the settlement was going to be about 75-$80,000 and he was not represented meaning there was no attorney so there are no attorney fees. And he had healed pretty well. And he was back to work. But I had this idea in my mind, here's a young man, he's 25 years old, he drives a motorcycle, he's going to be your one marshmallow type in your example, he's not going to want to wait for two marshmallows. And I went in with, frankly, a pretty bad attitude. But I explained what a structured settlement was. And he said, Would it be possible for me to just take $5,000 Now, and we used all the rest to give me an income that started when I was 55 years old. I was floored first. And I and I said, Yes, that would be great. We could give you a lifetime income starting when you're 55. And I asked him why he wanted to do that. And he said, Well, my father is an auto worker. And he's 55 years old right now. And he just lost a job. And he's unlikely to ever find the kind of job that he's had. And he's going to have a real struggle for the rest of his life with retirement. I'd like to just know that since I'm back and healthy again, that I would have something there when I turned 55, no matter what. And it turned out, we were able to produce an income of a little over $2,000 per month, long as he lived starting at age 55. Now, it turns turns out that this story is an old story, he turned 55 last year, and he at 55, he's got an expected life of maybe another 30 years, 2530 years, where he'll be getting almost $25,000 A year tax free for something that hopefully he long ago forgot about. So there is a possibility to do some extraordinary things, or some ordinary things as fits people's needs.
Michael Gilmartin:What I've found in using structured settlements in the past, is you made a good point about you know, and we have some questions about when should you consider it and what what amount of money makes sense. But I find that like when you're using them the story of what the person needs, and what their needs are, or how you utilize them. So instead of just saying we're gonna give you structure, and you got all this stuff going on, I always use it as a tag of like, what are you worried about? What do you have coming up? What are you thinking about? What are your, you know, do you have children? Do you have this, you have that? I mean, same thing any of us would do to go through estate planning or life insurance? And it's kind of getting to the root of what are their motivations? What are their concerns? What are their needs, and then the cool part about them to your point is that you can make them kind of whatever you need them to be to help somebody. And I think we're also about instant gratification. And to go back to what you said, if you gave me my paycheck at the beginning of the year, I'd be done with it in like two months. Like I'm not sure. It'd be a problem. But I mean, so when, and I'm just gonna run a little bit, but like, when do you recommend adjusters or people say, hey, I need to consider a structure.
Brad Cantwell:Yeah, I wouldn't say any value, but when should the start to be coming to the mind of an adjuster say, hey, I really, I need to consider one of these here. I wouldn't say any value, that it first there is a lower limit. Generally, there are certain kinds of cases that we can do as low as$10,000. But usually we're talking about $25,000 is kind of the lower limit. And depending on the kind of claim it is, it may be higher than that, I would certainly think that any case that has a value of $100,000 or more, unless it was literally the kind of claim where they lost $100,000. And they need to replace it. Like they got hit by a bus and their wallet full of a giant check went off the bridge, which doesn't usually happen the 100,000 word preacher needs. But to what you first started with Mike, one of the things I love about this and it's it it goes back to that story of when I was involved in hotel labor discussions, is we typically think about settlement negotiations as a as a purely adversarial exercise, as somebody on one side wants something because something bad happened, the other side wants to not pay them or wants to pay them less. And they all they can do is argue about well, you have to pay me more because of this, or we don't owe you that much because of that. One of the things I love about structured settlements, and I love about negotiations, if done well, in general, is that when you turn it, as you said to asking questions, you know, what are real needs? What are the things you're concerned about? It changes the sort of tenor of the discussions to something that's more collaborative, lets people be sort of the author of their own future. And it's gratifying for both sides, frankly, to be able to solve problem. Typically when somebody's been injured, whether at work or while driving or in a hospital. Nobody meant for that to happen. It's unusual that anybody meant for it to happen and sometimes frankly, it was just an accident. There's not a clear at fault party. So you have an accident, you have something bad that's happened with a structured settlement, you have a unique ability to try to say, how can we address the outcomes here? What have you lost or what is needed as a result of the bad thing that happened and focus less on, I wasn't at fault, or you owe me this much. It again, it makes everybody be a little bit more creative. And I will get to your question about the size. There are certain types of claims, if you're involved with a child's claim, a minor who you want to prevent either having money too soon, or knowing that the day they turn 18, even if they're in high school, that they're going to suddenly become the most popular kid in school, because they got a big chunk of money released to them, that may not be a good idea. So even a smaller claim involving a child, you would want to try to structure that if you've got any claim with somebody who has been catastrophically injured, or has intellectual challenges after an accident, or can never work. Again, anything that's that kind of serious, no matter what sort of money you're talking about, that's one that implies a structured settlement would be useful. I was just going to go back to Greg's example of the marshmallow experiment, which it was a really good point to bring up. The fact is in settlement planning, whether you're the injured person, or you know, their family, or their attorney, if they are represented, or you're on the claim side with the defendant, your claims professional, it is worth recognizing that in addition to meeting people's absolute needs, for medical care for wage replacement, so forth, it's also helpful to at least address some some wants. And if you leave all of the money off the table, you know, you're gonna find people make mistakes, they will go find it in a worse way. So with your settlement planning, I said, Look, your needs today are part of a structured settlement. It's your attorney fees, it slowly means it's things like that. But you should also make sure there's a little bit of money. So somebody has been sent through something really bad, can do something nice, whether it's take a long weekend, go to Disneyland, fix their car, whatever they need to do. You can't ignore, you know, a little bit of enjoyment money as well.
Greg Hamlin:And that's a excellent point.
Michael Gilmartin:Yeah, I think your point, I think, when people and I'm getting this out of the brain of an injured worker right now, but a lot of people in our industry, I think they hear the word structured settlement. And sometimes their immediate thought is, well, you're just trying to withhold money from me, right? Like you're trying to not pay me what I'm owed. And so I think it's your point, Brad, about changing that narrative, and making it a lot more of a collaborative effort. And hey, we really are looking out for your best interests and things that are coming up for you. And we don't want to ignore the now but we also need to plan for the future. It's it's a different way of thinking about it. I think it's it's helpful when you're in adjuster or whatever role you are, to look at it that way. Because I think sometimes people come into it with this attitude of, Oh, you don't want to pay me all my money, and you want to withhold it from me and give it to me over time. And so it's how we change that narrative when we're going into a settlement discussion, that I think it's a good reminder for everybody, not really a question. I just I was that's an interesting way to look at it.
Brad Cantwell:Mike, you're right. I will tell you a long time ago, when I was in Chicago, there was a, there was an adjuster and I want to imitate his accent, he had a lovely thick Greek American accent. But he said something in a mediation once that stuck with me, the person who had been offered a structured settlement, said something about, I like what you just mentioned, you're just trying to tell me what to do with my money, or you're trying not to pay me now. And this gentleman said, Is there anything more attractive than an independent source of long term income, something that's coming into you? I mean, you hear people talk about winning the lottery, and a lot of people only dream of the big pay the big pay day, Big Lottery payments, you can choose to take it over time. And the thought of, you know, what would you do if your living expenses were paid for, or if you had an income on into the future, think of all the freedom you might have with your own life, you'd have maybe freedom to try a little something, make some your side gig become your main gig. Or you might be able to go retrain yourself to do something that you didn't have the freedom to do. I actually think of those future payments not as being withheld, but as a way to give people freedom, which is really how this claims adjuster explained it. He did very well.
Greg Hamlin:That's a great example. And, you know, from my perspective, seeing some of these claims, we've actually had some claims that previously you know, they were owed a benefit, whether it was a widow benefit or something like that, that maybe it happened four or five years ago and they weren't interested in settling. Because, you know, they're thinking, Well, I don't have my spouse for the rest of my life, and I'm gonna have to figure you know, and these payments that I'm getting, because of the state benefit, you know, I don't want a lump sum of money. And we've been able to look at some of those later after the fact, it presents some structures that give people options, more options than just a monthly, you know, whatever the state said they were getting every month, but gave them some options of some upfront money, some money over time, or money at certain points in their life. And we've seen some of those actually work better for the spouse, employee who lost their life or, or some of the situations that maybe they already got a benefit, but there was a way to make that work better for them. And then at the same time, they weren't having to deal with us anymore, either. Not that we're terrible to deal with. But people like freedom to live their own lives. And if they have to call us, especially on the medical side, if for approval for different things, or go through the cops system to get their benefits, this is a way to kind of exclude all that and be able for people to take control of their lives. What are some other examples that you've seen that have been win wins for injured workers who are looking for that freedom?
Brad Cantwell:Well, you hit it on the head, workers compensation is wonderful system, every state has some methodology for helping people who've been hurt at work, to pay for their medical expenses, and to cover some portion of their lost income. But all of those have very specific ways of addressing it, you get x amount per week or X amount per month period, and you lose it if if this happens, the medicals have to be, you know, reasonable and necessary and related to your accident. And there may be disputes about that. And there is a system that has to be gone through when you settle a case. And especially when you settle a workers compensation claim or using a structured settlement, you can retain some of the beauty of the worker's compensation statutes in delivering money over time, but now you suddenly have freedom to vary from the course a little bit. One case, it really sticks out on me this was a there was a gentleman who was a plasterer, and he was doing a roof repair ceiling repair in a in a gym in a school. And he fell off of a scaffold when it got jostled, and unfortunately became paraplegic. And he was confined to a wheelchair. And eventually, as he got older, he was mostly confined to bed, he and his wife at a small house in Chicago, that was two stories. But he couldn't get up the stairs, they didn't have modifications to allow him to go upstairs. And he basically lived most of the time on a hospital bed in what had been their dining room. That was that his wife was his primary caretaker. But eventually, as she got a little bit older, he was a big man. And he was difficult for her to lift and turn and dress him and address his skin. And he started to have problems with skin breakdown, which was sending him to the hospital and got it gets very dangerous. If you have open sores, or somebody who's unable to move a well, and this was him because he had been injured many years before he had a low compensation rate. And to his wife's credit, she would sort of audit all of the medical bills even before they got submitted to the comp carrier. But it turned out that there were a lot of things that they could use and could need that weren't called for under the statute. So when we enter that case, and I had a very, you know, thoughtful claims professional that I was working with on that case, we first thing we did was say, Look, can we do can we give them something that will allow them this is that upfront part that will allow them move out of this house that they're in which is completely inappropriate for his condition and put them into, we actually put them into a nice apartment that overlooks a lake. But it was all on one level and made it very easy for them to get around. It was adapted for a person who had paraplegia. All of a sudden there was there was funding enough to have an attendant come in for a part of every day to help take care of his skin and make sure that he was turned and he could move. And somebody actually keep the couple company. And it was an interesting thing because this was a very loving couple. When I talked to them separately, the gentleman who was hurt. His biggest concern was that he knew he wasn't going to live a full life expectancy when he was already older by the time we addressed the claim. And his biggest concern was when he died, his wife who had been taking care of them for years now would have nothing left because there wasn't a thing called for in the statute for the survivor. And when I spoke to the wife, her biggest concern was that she wanted her husband to have the best possible life in his remaining years. So we were able to put something together where we actually the settlement, transformed his wage loss benefit under the Act to a future payments that went to both of them, and were paid for as long as either of them lived. We also, as I said, we used upfront cash to move them into a more appropriate space, they got an attendant, and we made sure that we both protected Medicare's interest, but ensured that if any of his future medical, after the settlement, if the money we set aside for that was not sufficient that Medicare she was eligible for would take care of some of the biggest potential expenses, which are hospitalizations, and some of his doctor visits in particular. And it's one of those wonderful, but sort of sad stories were three years after the settlement, he did pass away. But his wife, she continued to get money for as long as she lived, which she wouldn't otherwise have had. And she wrote me a really nice letter saying how much better the last three years of her husband life had been, because we thought outside of the box and created a settlement that really met their needs.
Greg Hamlin:That's a fantastic story. And a great example of like, what this can actually do. And a good reminder to, to think outside the box and not let ourselves just get stuck in well, this is how it has to be. There's sometimes solutions where everybody wins. I've got a seven year old that has a lot of energy. And I said one time that he thinks outside the box, and you said no dad, I think outside the circle that the box is in and I was like, Oh my gosh, what am I raising here?
Michael Gilmartin:Man that's like
Greg Hamlin:, I know, I'm like, this kid's gonna be a mad scientist. My wife's like, he's gonna cure cancer. I said, or a mad scientist, I don't know whensomething's happening. But we need that in the industry, we need creativity. And we need to be able to think, and I don't know that sometimes we think of the financial sector as the most creative place. But but there's real really great options to find ways where everybody's life can be better. And and I thought that you did a nice job of showing how that fits.
Michael Gilmartin:Well, I think that like we just forget, sometimes that people have lives, right? Like, it's, you get so caught up in the work comp claim, or the accident, or the medical that's happening or the recovery. And it's like, there's a lot happening outside of that. That is like, like, I mean, think about any of us at work every day, like I got my work stuff I need to do, but my entire life is still going on around me. And it's a creative way to take that into account. And truly, like, you know, Brad said, find something that works for somebody in their life and what their goals and accomplishments are. And I think that's a, that's a cool way to do it. A question for you off of your answer. Brad, obviously, these things don't come together overnight, right? Like it's a lot of work to have these discussions and kind of get the proposals out there and really find something that works. And it's not a, hey, let's throw this together last minute and move on. At what point in the process should adjusters or whoever you're working with, say, hey, I need to get the structure settlement folks involved like to be most successful? At what point should we be saying, hey, I need I need to start having these conversations and and working this, because you don't want it to be last minute thing. So what is your take on that?
Brad Cantwell:Absolutely. I think that the best time to get a structured settlement professional involved is as soon as you know that you're likely to be paying a claim. And it's got some significance. If you're gonna pay a $3,000 case or $5000 case, that's not probably a structured settlement candidate. But once you recognize that something's compensable and is likely to be you know, somewhere in the mid five figures or up, it's it's a good time to reach out and I would say reach out early. A good structured settlement consultant can not only help you start thinking about what the needs might be for the claimant or their family, but they also can be helpful in your evaluation. What is a future loss worth? What is the present value of certain future benefits or they might be able to help key you into other sources of benefits that aren't being paid by the employer, the defendant or the insurer. For example, a good structured settlement consultant could help make sure that an injured person's eligibility for public benefits was not lost, whether that's Medicare or Medicaid in certain cases, or veterans benefits. They may be aware of certain local benefits. There are some places where if you've been injured at a certain have a certain kind of injury or a certain age, that a county or a municipality may have transportation benefits available, extend education benefits, all of those sorts of things can be very useful early on, and structured settlement consultants, they really focus on finding these external aids, because all they do really is deal in the realm of, of settlements. They're not the ones doing the investigations of the claims. They're not the ones trying a case that can't be settled. But they are experts in the things that help get cases settled. So I would say is early as you know, that there's going to be a significant payment might likely made, I'd get somebody involved, even if it is a year or two, before it's all done. We have also found that involving structured settlement consultants can shorten the claim cycle time, because you can get past some of those impasses that come up, when you're only negotiating with cash, where you're just slicing this along. I want x, we want to pay you half of x, and then, okay, we'll take three quarters, we'll pay you, you know, six tenths, and you do that instead using something creative. You can sort of bridge those gaps and get there a little more quickly.
Greg Hamlin:So Brad, do your consultants ever participate in the mediation? Or does that ever happen where there's a mediation scheduled? And it's a complicated claim? And they help or are present to help talk about what options are out there?
Brad Cantwell:Yes, in fact, if there's a playing field for our consultants, the Super Bowl is the mediation. And that's where we play, the truth is, before I took over the leadership of our company, I spent 25 years as a structured settlement consultant handling cases of all different types all over the country. And I attended over 2000 mediations.
Greg Hamlin:Wow.
Brad Cantwell:Early in my career, a lot of the cases were settled in old fashioned settlement conferences without a mediator without a facilitator. And we would meet at somebody's home, or we might meet at a Denny's, or we'd meet in a claims office and just hash things out there. So we still do that, though more often, we're actually involved in a mediation. And now these days, of course, with technology, and with COVID, we've learned to do that virtually as well. So yes, the ultimate playing field for us, is the mediation where we can speak directly to concerns to sort of tease out needs that may not have been identified just from a submission or demand, that kind of thing.
Greg Hamlin:That's great. So just hearing, I think I probably know the answer. That's just from what you're saying. But I'd still love to hear from you. What's your favorite part about what you do every day, what drives you?
Brad Cantwell:Well, it's working with people that's finding solutions. And whether it's in a case or in trying to meet the needs of an insurance company, or law firm, it's working with people to find creative solutions. And there's that moment when there's a click, that sort of happens, and you recognize that you've hit upon something that can be really useful. That may not have been thought about before. That is a real joy. And I And sometimes it's really emotional, if you help solve a problem for a family. It tell you the tearful hugs that I've gotten, you know, in mediation, for example, when people realize, you know, what, there is a path forward, we're going to be able to make this work, we're going to not have to take a risk of a trial, for example. And then everybody is happy that that's a wonderful feeling. But even on a simpler basis, where we just say, is there something we can put in place? Is there a process we can follow? That will get us over time better results. And that sort of problem solving and creativity working with people is what really turns me on.
Greg Hamlin:That's great. And I think the world needs a lot more win wins out there, for sure. For some reason, we've just gotten to a place where I felt like things are so polarized, that it's hard for people to find common ground. And I don't know, you know, I mean, I think about when I was growing up to now and it just feels like there's more argumentative relationships at schools and media and everywhere you go. So I think looking for those opportunities where common ground can be found and where everybody can be happy. We need a lot more of that for sure.
Brad Cantwell:I'll brag on our industry for just a moment that you brought up the political outlet landscape. Truth is there is a structured settlement caucus in Congress in the US. And it is comprised of almost exactly equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans and structured settlements are supported by the defense bar, the plaintiffs bar, consumer groups, insurance groups, it's one of the few areas where it really is recognized as something that's mutually beneficial. That just helps responsibly use funds to take care of people over a long period of time. It's good for taxpayers who are relieved from the burden of having to take care of people who might otherwise too soon use all of their settlement funds. So it's really got a social good. And that's a nice feeling to we're one of those few things that the most polarized groups actually agree on.
Greg Hamlin:That's great. That's fantastic. Well, Brad, I wanted to, as we wrap things up this year, one of the things that I'm trying to do is put some some positive vibes out in the universe. And so one thing I wanted to ask you is, if you could share a memory of a time you were truly happy, what were you doing and who were you with?
Brad Cantwell:It's a great question. Yeah, I can tell you, I can just get a smile. I get a warm feeling thinking about it. And it may not be the most original answer. But it was the moment that my son was born. I had been with my wife overnight in a long, protracted labor, not mine, hers.
Greg Hamlin:I'm sure she'll remind you that.
Brad Cantwell:And she had just gone through hours of hard
pushing, and it was 6:20 in the morning. And our our son was born. And they were trying to take his blood so they could see if he was healthy. And he started a scream, of course, as a newborn will do when you prick them in a finger stick right and I started talking to him, I came over to him. And as soon as he heard my voice, he squeezed my finger with his, with his literally two minute old hand. And I just, of course, I fell in love with my son, I fell in love with my wife again. And it's a warm feeling that I can remember this clearly today is, is 23 years ago when he was born,
Greg Hamlin:That is beautiful. And I you know, have very similar feelings. And I come from we have a crazy big family. And we just had our sixth child. So I've got three teenagers and I have a nine week old. So that's a special kind of crazy, but I came home from work the other day. And my 13 year old had just gotten off the bus and was lying on the floor, baby was like under a mat like laying on the floor plane. And he was laying next to him and my son, both my one son, my baby was smiling at my other son, and looking at them. And it was like one of those moments you're like, Yeah, that's what it's about. That's what it's about.
Brad Cantwell:That's great.
Greg Hamlin:Well, I appreciate you sharing that. Brad, I think you've done an excellent job of helping people understand the importance of this. Just encourage folks if they have questions to reach out to you or your company. We partner with you guys and you're an excellent resource for us. And then overall, we just remind people to do right think differently. And don't forget to care and hope. Hope we see you on future episodes over the next few months. We release every two weeks on Monday. So hope you join us for the future. It's everybody